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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    My go-to is Torment, the Spider-Man arc that represented Todd McFarlane's writing debut. Still a fan. There's a chaos to it that works in a story about Spider-Man in a dangerous situation he can barely comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    I thought the "alien parasite" retcon for Parallax was pretty lame too, but since I had been one of the fans upset about Jordan's villain turn in Emerald Twilight, I was willing to accept the lameness, to finally get the character back to not having such huge marks against him. None of the less-bs ways of allowing some kind of redemption had really worked, so dumb alien energy parasite, it is!

    Plus which, lame as the space-bug version of Parallax was initially, it led to all the color spectrum stuff for the Lanterns, which I think improved on their mythology greatly. So, guess I'm saying Rebirth kind of fits the thread topic, since most everybody thought parasite Parallax was a cop-out, but from Larfleeze to Dex-Starr and all the rest, I think a great deal of good came out of that kind of silly retcon.
    I thought Green Lantern: Rebirth was generally rather popular. It's collected in an Absolute edition, kicked off Johns' Green Lantern run, and has spawned copycats.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I actually liked Brand New Day of Spider-Man. I actually felt it was better than JMS's run.
    Yeah, it was solid superhero comics.
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  2. #17
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Define "Unpopular..."

    Wonder Woman during the "Rebirth"-era?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Do most haters of Identity Crisis already have a familiarity with Sue Dibny and Jean Lorring? I've only read bits and pieces of Justice League Europe and the first issue of Sword of the Atom (where Jean was from the get go was portrayed as a bitch) not enough to gain an emotional attachment to those main characters.
    While I was familiar with Sue Dibny from JLI/E (her relationship with the Elongated Man and her jokey flirtation with Maxwell Lord were fun) I had never seen Jean Loring (hadn't read any Atom comics at the time), I had several problems with the story. First, it didn't feel like the writer knew much about the characters or certainly didn't care about them and used them as if they were interchangeable pieces to tell the murder mystery he wanted to rather than telling a story that made sense. Second, relying on shock to have an impact rather than good storytelling in the form of first the murder then the rape of Sue Dibny and then the deaths of both Tim Drake's father and the original Boomerang. Third, Zatanna mindwiping villains and Batman with approval of other Leaguers.

    If this were an Elseworlds story I could see it, I still wouldn't enjoy it but I could see where it not making sense and being shocking for the sake of shock had value to someone. For me though part of the appeal is getting to know characters over time and caring about what happens to them. So for me seeing Ralph wiggle his nose, and when asked to stop insisting he only does it because his wife loves it (only to have her insist that's not true) and have that become a running gag was much more interesting than anything that story had to offer. It didn't build anything, it just tore things down to be shocking and edgy.

    It's similar to problems others have with Bendis' writing. When he's writing characters that didn't previously exist or had long been neglected (Luke Cage, for example) he did a great job. When he's writing established characters out of a story because he doesn't want to use them (Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch) it can become confusing and cringe-worthy.

  4. #19
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    The first thing that always pops to mind when asked these kinds of questions (even when it's not being lambasted in a current thread ) is the post-Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League books. Most fans hate the era, but it's when I discovered the JL and therefore will always have a place in my heart.

    Other unpopular runs/series I love that most don't include - Messner-Loebs Wonder Woman and Thor, "The Crossing" era Avengers books, DeFalco's Fantastic Four, and Robinson's Justice League.

    And basically a bunch of other 90's "dreck".
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  5. #20
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    DeFalco's Fantastic Four
    DeFalco's F4 started to pick-up when both Doom & Reed returned, and Pacheco made the climax all the more memorable (IMHO):


  6. #21
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My go-to is Torment, the Spider-Man arc that represented Todd McFarlane's writing debut. Still a fan. There's a chaos to it that works in a story about Spider-Man in a dangerous situation he can barely comprehend.



    I thought Green Lantern: Rebirth was generally rather popular. It's collected in an Absolute edition, kicked off Johns' Green Lantern run, and has spawned copycats.

    Yeah, it was solid superhero comics.
    No, I think it was, the return of Jordan as an uncompromised hero was long overdue, and likewise I think the new normal for the GL core was pretty welcome. And like I said, it all led to the multi-colored Lantern Corps which really reinvigorated the entire GL mythos, so really it was all good. It's just the introduction of space-bug Parallax that tends to get criticized ... and, as far as it goes, agreed it was a bit of a lame way to get out of the corner they'd painted themselves into, as far as trying to redeem Hal Jordan as a hero. But, like I also said, since I was one of the fans who had never been a fan of his villain turn in the first place, I'm okay with the finally successful resolution being a pretty bs retcon of the story that was originally told.

    Making hugely big changes that you can't get out of without some sort of lame retcon is unfortunately not even an unusual thing, in comics.
    Be kind to me, or treat me mean
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  7. #22
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    Put me down as a big fan of the Defalco FF run as well.

  8. #23
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    Does it count when I say I liked the FF run where the Thing was all spikey, just because I liked the Thing so much in that run?

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I really liked Clone Saga but man could it be done in a much more darker tone.

    A teen Superhero sees his dead girl friend walking around (A woman who was killed by his best Friend's father BTW) he also has to fight a clone of himself and then get rid of said clones body after he dies. And it was all master minded by a man that the hero has looked up to and admired for some time.

    This could have really been a dark story and it would have been fun if it kind of drove Peter over the edge for a time.

    So I liked it but it could have been so much more.
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  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member CaptainEurope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    Does it count when I say I liked the FF run where the Thing was all spikey, just because I liked the Thing so much in that run?
    Wasn't that Steven Englehart's run, that was edited so heavily that he had them take his name off several issues?

  11. #26
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    DeFalco's F4 started to pick-up when both Doom & Reed returned, and Pacheco made the climax all the more memorable (IMHO):

    Yeah, Pacheco was a breath of fresh air after several years of Paul Ryan's slightly dated (yet perfectly serviceable) style.

    Still think it was a bummer that Fantastic Four - the book that kicked off the Marvel Universe - ended it's first volume in service to a mediocre X-Men crossover. But I suppose the same can be said of every book involved with "Onslaught".... :/
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainEurope View Post
    Wasn't that Steven Englehart's run, that was edited so heavily that he had them take his name off several issues?
    Maybe, but why did the editorial do that? What did he do wrong?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    Maybe, but why did the editorial do that? What did he do wrong?
    I haven't read that run, but I've read interviews with Englehart. His version is that Marvel editorial thought that he was straying too far from the core concept of the FF, while Steve wanted to be more experimental. I don't think he did anything outrageous, it sounds like it was just "creative differences".

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I haven't read that run, but I've read interviews with Englehart. His version is that Marvel editorial thought that he was straying too far from the core concept of the FF, while Steve wanted to be more experimental. I don't think he did anything outrageous, it sounds like it was just "creative differences".
    Okay, that could be a reason. Even with the editorial interfering it doesn't read like classic FF.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I don't think most of Lobdell's Uncanny X-Men (I'm talking outside Gen X and AoA) was bad.

    I agree that Spider-Man's Clone Saga wasn't as bad as said, and also post Clone Saga - I rather enjoyed the latter era especially.

    This may be quite random but I was actually enjoying Brotherhood. I still don't know why it was considered to be the worst X-Men story ever.

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