Hawkman vs Hawkgirl: A split Fandom

[Bruce Wayne]

But they didn't have to use him at all. I didn't even know Hawkman existed until they used him. But the chose to bring in the character and crap all over him, that's just bad, imo.

A lot of the creative decision on Justice League was just weird like nano-machines-rewrite-Terry's-dad-dna-to-make-Batman-his-real-father type weird. Surprising Levitz didn't call them on Hawkman given that he blocked Timm from using JSA in that Brainwave alternate universe story with the Justice Guild.

[John Venus]

Why would anyone intreduced to the Hawks in the DCAU like Hawkman? I didn't. In the JL/JLU he was just a deluded stalker trying to get between her and John Stewart.

It took me an Iron Forge statue to make me realize Hawkman was cool, and read stories where he wasn't stalking anyone helped too.

I was introduced to him through the DCAU as well but the comic version at the time wasn't any better either. At least the DCAU version moved on from pining after Hawkgirl and fought crime on his own terms whereas the comic version he kept pining after Kendra until their deaths.

There were elements from the Hawkman ongoing that I like but I wasn't a fan of the romance element. That's why I'm more partial to the alien Hawkman.

[Frontier]

Actually so far, I'd argue that Hawkgirl has got more attention in adaptations than Hawkman has. The JL/JLU of course. But also the Arrowverse - Hawkman does make appearances, but Hawkgirl was a main character on Legends of Tomorrow. Hawkman has appeared a couple of times on Smallville (which I admittedly haven't seen), a few times on Legends, and that's pretty much that...until the Black Adam movie of course.

Definitely DCAU nostalgia plays a role in fuelling the Hawkgirl fandom (and I count myself among them). Because of the DCAU, Hawkgirl is one of the most recognizable female characters in the DCU to general audiences and casual fans. Contrast this with Hawkman - people can recognize him and know who he is, but they either jump him in with the JSA (if they know about the JSA) or as some background Justice League character.

I don't think Legends really made a lot of people aware of Hawkgirl, at least in a positive way and beyond a "I used to be a barista" meme.

Hawkman has also made a lot of animated appearances as of late.

A lot of the creative decision on Justice League was just weird like nano-machines-rewrite-Terry's-dad-dna-to-make-Batman-his-real-father type weird. Surprising Levitz didn't call them on Hawkman given that he blocked Timm from using JSA in that Brainwave alternate universe story with the Justice Guild.

Supposedly they did prevent the DCAU from using Katar Hol in the role that went to Hro Talek in Starcrossed, which is why the latter's name is an anagram of Katar's.

[SecretWarrior]

Hro Talak was supposed to be Katar, but that was nixed by DC, so he ended up being his own character. Funny enough, he turned out cooler that Katar/Carter.

[MadFacedKid]

Hro Talak was supposed to be Katar, but that was nixed by DC, so he ended up being his own character. Funny enough, he turned out cooler that Katar/Carter.

I actually preferred Carter to Hro Talak the latter was actually presented as a lover of Hawkgirl’s and it didn’t sit right with me how he casually back handed her.

Carter was a bit to fixated on the whole reincarnation thing and without knowing the comic backstory to it. It was presented a bit creepy at times like they’re might actually not be something there. But then we’re eventually shown he does have the whole history of dying lovers thing with Shayera. Which probably strengthened the whole John Stewart thing more because that was a relationship that transcended a star crossed lover deal. Putting myself in Carter’s shoes I felt for him though because he did have all these memories with this woman but she didn’t, and I thought his patience and determination were admirable. Not to mention he was presented the chance to kill his competitor and he made the heroic choice.

[DrNewGod]

Something similar, but less acrimonious happened with Yellowjacket and The Wasp over at Marvel. Both Hawkgirl and The Wasp were created as sidekicks after their male mentors already had several issues of solo stories behind them*, although Hawkgirl was almost always portrayed as more her partners equal than The Wasp during their first twenty-five years.

*I speak of Shiera Saunders, not Shayera Thal, who was reimagined at the same time as Hawkman in their The Brave and the Bold debut.

Like JL when it came time to make a toon, The Avengers were desprately short on female members as The X-Men and Teen Titans demonstrated fans liked strong women. The Wasp was given opportunities to shine, a few at Yellowjacket's expense, and she eventually became a central figure of the Avengers while Yellowjacket faded into obscurity. Also similarly, Hawkgirl and The Wasp's male partners were a bit stiff, easily outshined by the ladies.

The OP is right in noting that when and where you met the characters makes a difference. My first encounter with them was a reprint of their first tussle with IQ (beautifully drawn by Andersen). That, however is not what makes me a fan of the Hawk Couple.

All three Pre-Zero Hour versions of Hawkgirl/woman were almost always treated as Hawkman's equal. Not his Distressed Damsel, not his Intellectual Inferior, not his Cheerleader. They had a loving, respectful, and supportive partnership.

That's unique in superhero comics. I miss it.

[Riv86672]

But they didn't have to use him at all. I didn't even know Hawkman existed until they used him. But the chose to bring in the character and crap all over him, that's just bad, imo.

^^^Thats true. Good point!

So has there ever been a good animated Hawkman?

[DrNewGod]

^^^Thats true. Good point!

So has there ever been a good animated Hawkman?

I don't think there's ever been a good video depiction of Hawkman. Period.

[Lightning Rider]

I don't think there's ever been a good video depiction of Hawkman. Period.

Not Smallville either?

[Riv86672]

Not Smallville either?

I knew CW had a live action (and not very interesting) Hawkman.
No idea Smallville had a version, though!

[MadFacedKid]

I won’t lie with the Smallville version I liked his character and that whole Deathstroke rivalry was cool but he also came off like he was stiff and trying to hard to be angst at the same time. Like the actor was saying his lines constipated.

I fell out of the Arrowverse pretty early on it wasn’t for me.

He appeared in “The Batman” that cartoon in the mid 2000s I liked the character there too and the voice acting wasn’t bad but I didn’t care for the voice itself at the same time. Overall I don’t think external media has really done anything amazing for Hawkman and I’m hoping we do get something great with Aldis hodge.

[DrNewGod]

Not Smallville either?

Meh. YMMV.

[Anodyne]

Hawkman and Hawkgirl also have the same backstory and power set which often makes one of them redundant in team settings. Even with a shared origin they have to find a way to make them both different from one another.

IIRC the Shadow War of Hawkman gave Shayera a spiritual side that Katar lacked. Something about her helping the souls of those killed reach their next spiritual way-station.

[John Venus]

IIRC the Secret War of Hawkman gave Shayera a spiritual side that Katar lacked. Something about her helping the souls of those killed reach their next spiritual way-station.

Do you mean 'Shadow War of Hawkman'? Because I can't find anything about 'Secret War of Hawkman'.

From the comics I've read, this is how I've seen some writers differentiate between Katar and Shayera:

-In Shadow War of Hawkman and in some Satellite era comics, she is depicted as the more cerebral one. Same level as Hawkman but she was more likely to tinker with gadgets. In Shadow War, she was also more prone to use subterfuge and fly under the radar while Hawkman was more likely to tackle problems head on.
-In Legend of Hawkman, she was depicted as being more religious than him, having a spiritual side that Katar lacked at the time.

[Frontier]

Hro Talak was supposed to be Katar, but that was nixed by DC, so he ended up being his own character. Funny enough, he turned out cooler that Katar/Carter.

Hro Talek was a bad guy who hit Shayera (something the VA found difficult to perform because of his history with domestic violence).

He was nowhere near as cool as the real Hawkman.

^^^Thats true. Good point!

So has there ever been a good animated Hawkman?

He's pretty fun on DC Super Hero Girls.