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  1. #181
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    that's why it's a weird alt-u, and not the main one. If it actually made sense....
    Agreed. These alternate Earths aren't meant to be exactly the same as the mainline Earth. That's the main reasons they exist, to explore Supermen, Batmen, Wonder Women, and others who might not be as perfect as the ones we read in their monthly comics.

    I don't expect Kingdom Come's or Injustice's heroes to be as incorruptible as their Earth-0 counterparts. I just expect them to be similar enough that creators can tell stories about they when they fail without it tarnishing the main ones. In the end, the only thing that matters is whether or not it makes for a compelling story. With Kingdom Come, I'd say Waid & Ross largely succeeded. With Injustice, the games completely failed, while I think Tom Taylor did an admirable job trying to salvage that lackluster foundation and spun a few good comics out of it.

  2. #182
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Hmmm well this is interesting.... Why is the franchise seemingly afraid of it's star? Hmmmm....

    Perhaps because the creators found the idea of a super-man terrifying?

  3. #183
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Hmmm well this is interesting.... Why is the franchise seemingly afraid of it's star? Hmmmm....

    Perhaps because the creators found the idea of a super-man terrifying?
    I would definitely like this dude and this one as well..
    A fight between these dudes would be legendary...
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  4. #184
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    Minus the ending...this short story could be an amazing origin story for the Ultra-Humanite


    Instead of killing the scientist...he literally absorbs all of his knowledge and than takes his body.

    His addiction to the potion slowly turns him into a non-corporal being with no permanent body and telekinetic powers to go along with his telepathy

    Like the floating nervous system in watchmen
    Last edited by kryptonian; 06-07-2021 at 10:03 PM.

  5. #185
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Just about the only connection I can make to Diana with that is how she uses the lasso to force people to tell the truth and that's a stretch in itself to try and argue it'd lead her to dominating people and removing their free will.

    There's no way anyone can convince me Diana putting the world in chains makes any sense. The same goes for a proper Clark Kent Superman.
    I can see it. She came to stop 'Man's World' from starting wars... and after asking nicely 1,000.000 times... She has the power to STOP them. There comes a point where fans value 'free will' a lot more than the other characters would. I remember when people insisted that Batman would be totally against the whole 'identity crisis' personality swapping... and that's ridiculous. Batman is the LAST person who believes in every individual's right to go out and be as evil as possible. If Arkham ever developed a medication that 'cured' Two-face and Joker and stole their homicidal tendencies...he'd be first in line to fund that.

    Superman is similar. There comes a time when 'stopping crime after its' done' just doesn't feel enough. He wants wars to stop... he stops wars. Even in the 'early' Injustice days... he may have been taking government power... but he was saving a LOT of lives. Naturally the story went too far and made him completely too far... but at the beginning? Taking a more active role in protecting people as opposed to trusting people to have other people's best interests at heart?? Yeah, I can see that line getting crossed for either of them.

  6. #186
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    At around the 4-minute mark when he talks about MCU villains, it made me think that WB and DC have them one-upped. WB and DC take an even more literal approach of making the good guy bad. And DC has been giving Superman glowy eyes for decades.

    Last edited by DochaDocha; 06-11-2021 at 07:24 AM.

  7. #187
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    If the good guy ain't bad then they ain't good...what wut?

  8. #188
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I can see it. She came to stop 'Man's World' from starting wars... and after asking nicely 1,000.000 times... She has the power to STOP them. There comes a point where fans value 'free will' a lot more than the other characters would. I remember when people insisted that Batman would be totally against the whole 'identity crisis' personality swapping... and that's ridiculous. Batman is the LAST person who believes in every individual's right to go out and be as evil as possible. If Arkham ever developed a medication that 'cured' Two-face and Joker and stole their homicidal tendencies...he'd be first in line to fund that.

    Superman is similar. There comes a time when 'stopping crime after its' done' just doesn't feel enough. He wants wars to stop... he stops wars. Even in the 'early' Injustice days... he may have been taking government power... but he was saving a LOT of lives. Naturally the story went too far and made him completely too far... but at the beginning? Taking a more active role in protecting people as opposed to trusting people to have other people's best interests at heart?? Yeah, I can see that line getting crossed for either of them.
    Yeah, at some point "looking out for others" becomes "telling others what to do" then forcing people to do "what's best for their own good". Is it really tyranny if you're trying to make the world a better place? hahahhaah still a worthwhile question to ponder though.

  9. #189
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Yeah, at some point "looking out for others" becomes "telling others what to do" then forcing people to do "what's best for their own good". Is it really tyranny if you're trying to make the world a better place? hahahhaah still a worthwhile question to ponder though.
    Lots of people commit atrocities thinking they're making a utopia. I know it's overdone, but the Nazis thought they were creating a race of superior humans to inherit a cleansed Earth, washed away of the dregs and undesirable.

    They've become shorthand for "pure evil incarnate" for good reason.

    Tyranny comes in all forms and Superman should be first on the list of it's enemies.

  10. #190
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Lots of people commit atrocities thinking they're making a utopia. I know it's overdone, but the Nazis thought they were creating a race of superior humans to inherit a cleansed Earth, washed away of the dregs and undesirable.

    They've become shorthand for "pure evil incarnate" for good reason.

    Tyranny comes in all forms and Superman should be first on the list of it's enemies.
    I think that's a bad example because the leaders of the Third Reich did not appear to have benevolent goals. They were using that as a propaganda piece to deceive the populace, and don't appear to have actually believed it.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I think that's a bad example because the leaders of the Third Reich did not appear to have benevolent goals. They were using that as a propaganda piece to deceive the populace, and don't appear to have actually believed it.
    You don't think they really believed their empire would be a better place without Jews? They definitely believed that.

  12. #192
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    You don't think they really believed their empire would be a better place without Jews? They definitely believed that.
    You think Superman didn't really believe that the world would be a better place without Joker and criminals?

    It's a slippery slope. I imagine it's not a case of Today is the day I finally killed Lex.... as it's Today's the day I finally failed to convince myself I shouldn't kill Lex That thought's passed through his mind a hundred times... but he never crosses that line. Someday... he might? Same with Wonder Woman and Batman... They feel so straongly that they know the 'Right' way for society to be better... that it just isn't a stretch to see them insist on it some day. Especially Batman. He already rules the Batfamily with an iron fist insisting on codes of conduct and secret identities based on around his needs....

  13. #193
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    You don't think they really believed their empire would be a better place without Jews? They definitely believed that.
    The Third Reich had a long list of "undesirables". It's weird that people ignore so many of their crimes. Hitler's attack on Poland was because he wanted to murder all of the Polish people. He was less interested in killing Jews(who he was happy to stop at imprisoning) than Polish(who often didn't live long enough to be taken prisoner) for some reason.

    Of course the quirk with this discussion is in defining "better". One can argue that exterminating your enemies makes the world a better place... but is that only better for YOU? A lot of the people Hitler sent tot he camps were political dissidents. Pretty much anyone who publicly opposed him would be sent to the camps. Did it make his regime safer? perhaps? It didn't really help anyone else though. And when you consider how many of the dissidents were Germans? one can argue it wasn't really in the best interests of the German people. which is where it went full megalomaniacal dictator. The dictator and his lackeys benefited, no one else actually benefited. The German people were told that it was in their best interests, but they were functionally slaves to his regime and only the regime actually benefited.

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