The Evil Superman Discussion Thread

[The Overlord]

Omni-Man seems to believe he's not a monster, but there's no pretense with Homelander. Invincible has a different path for Nolan, but especially after the season finale, it's hard to see him as anything but a monster.

Homelander? Are we even entertaining the idea he's not top-to-bottom evil? Sure, he's fooled a lot of the people on his planet, but that doesn't mean he's not the worst person on it.

But does that make them bad characters? I don't think either of them are pure evil, Homelander is a mess due to his bad childhood and Omni-Man is a product of a toxic imperialist society and both seem to care about their sons in a weird twisted way. They are still bad people, I think there is nuances to their characters.

A character can be a horrible person and still be a interesting character.

[Agent Z]

They make good villains because they're so impossibly overpowered compared to the hero that the "how" of the takedown becomes interesting. Add great performances on top of that and yes, you have a compelling villain.

To paraphrase a lot of writers over the years, "it's not a great story to watch Goliath simply step on David, but have David take out Goliath and everyone asks 'how?'"

Most writers don't seem to understand that Superman need not always be Goliath, hence why they can't make him work as the hero. It's their failure, not the character's. I see more people love All-Might than Deku when talking about My Hero Academia. There's plenty of love for positive Superman-analogues too. Most writers are just too far up their own behinds to accept that dark doesn't automatically mean quality or adulthood-- it's just dark. But hey, when we're raised to think sarcasm is an excuse for not having a personality and that only cynicism and dark storytelling have value, can you blame them?



My god, I'm sorry for the boomer moment. I don't know what came over me.

There are a few things people need to keep in mind about All Might.

1) He is not the main character. Deku is. All Might is a mentor figure and he works well for what he is. If you want Superman to be written like All Might, you will have to accept him taking a backseat another character. Which I don't think the majority of Superman fans would accept.

2) All Might is much, much less powerful than Superman and is vulnerable in ways he is not.

3) All Might is a deconstruction of the Superman archetype just not in the way people are used to. Firstly, it is shown that he is putting on a facade for people and that living up to their ideals is something that greatly causes him turmoil, again something Superman fans would not like. And it's stated that All Might set the bar so high that no one wanted to step up to the plate when he retired and doesn't want to bother being as heroic as he is. Not a good message if you want a character to be inspirational.

[NaVi]

the worst thing about superman villain is that it is not a superman story, it is a batman story.
1: superman,villain = batman,hero.
2: batman,villain = ww,hero.
3:?????,villain = superman,hero.
when will superman the heore.

[Rightoya]

2: batman,villain = ww,hero.

Which story is that?

[Gaius]

the worst thing about superman villain is that it is not a superman story, it is a batman story.
1: superman,villain = batman,hero.
2: batman,villain = ww,hero.
3:?????,villain = superman,hero.
when will superman the heore.

Action Comics, Superman, Superman and the Authority, Superman '78, Batman/Superman, Superman: Red and Blue, Justice League, Superman and Lois, etc

[Robanker]

There are a few things people need to keep in mind about All Might.

1) He is not the main character. Deku is. All Might is a mentor figure and he works well for what he is. If you want Superman to be written like All Might, you will have to accept him taking a backseat another character. Which I don't think the majority of Superman fans would accept.

2) All Might is much, much less powerful than Superman and is vulnerable in ways he is not.

3) All Might is a deconstruction of the Superman archetype just not in the way people are used to. Firstly, it is shown that he is putting on a facade for people and that living up to their ideals is something that greatly causes him turmoil, again something Superman fans would not like. And it's stated that All Might set the bar so high that no one wanted to step up to the plate when he retired and doesn't want to bother being as heroic as he is. Not a good message if you want a character to be inspirational.

At least on the third point, Clark has been shown to grapple with his myth from time to time and he never feels he can match it, but he tries. His failure to do so often haunts him. The stories where that happens don't get as much hate as you'd think.

[NaVi]

Which story is that?

the last crisis and the bat-clown.

[NaVi]

Action Comics, Superman, Superman and the Authority, Superman '78, Batman/Superman, Superman: Red and Blue, Justice League, Superman and Lois, etc

a character being the hero of his comics, what a novelty. what I ask is when we will see batman or ww as villains, so that superman defeats them and becomes the great hero. because we have seen many stories of villainous superman, humiliated to make others great, it is time for superman to be the hero and others the failed heroes who give up and become villains.

[Gaius]

a character being the hero of his comics, what a novelty. what I ask is when we will see batman or ww as villains, so that superman defeats them and becomes the great hero. because we have seen many stories of villainous superman, humiliated to make others great, it is time for superman to be the hero and others the failed heroes who give up and become villains.

So Injustice where the entire first game revolves around how only Superman can beat another Superman?

Where all of his relative equals are made to his boot licking lackeys (Green Lantern, Flash), jobbed out to show how superior he is (Captain Marvel), or made more evil than he is so he can excused for his own actions (Wonder Woman)?

[DochaDocha]

The thing that makes Injustice less satisfying than it should be for us Supes fans who are tired of EVIL SUPERMAN! stories is that the good guy is largely a non-character throughout the story. WB will throw us a bone here and there and show our triumphant hero save the day. I gotta give them credit for that. Where they've been lagging is doing a good job of accompanying triumphant Superman with a great story.

We're just not getting a complete character who has an engaging tale paired with his epic feats. And because we're not getting that great narrative, people who aren't down with Superman continue complaining that he's not an intriguing character in himself, that the EVIL SUPERMAN! is more interesting, that Batman's more relatable, etc.

[Frontier]

So Injustice where the entire first game revolves around how only Superman can beat another Superman?

Where all of his relative equals are made to his boot licking lackeys (Green Lantern, Flash), jobbed out to show how superior he is (Captain Marvel), or made more evil than he is so he can excused for his own actions (Wonder Woman)?

I mean, isn't it kind of the norm for these kinds of stories that the good counterparts end up beating their evil versions? Most of the characters you listed got to fight and beat their Regime counterpart.

The thing that makes Injustice less satisfying than it should be for us Supes fans who are tired of EVIL SUPERMAN! stories is that the good guy is largely a non-character throughout the story. WB will throw us a bone here and there and show our triumphant hero save the day. I gotta give them credit for that. Where they've been lagging is doing a good job of accompanying triumphant Superman with a great story.

We're just not getting a complete character who has an engaging tale paired with his epic feats. And because we're not getting that great narrative, people who aren't down with Superman continue complaining that he's not an intriguing character in himself, that the EVIL SUPERMAN! is more interesting, that Batman's more relatable, etc.

But in the final stretch of the game he basically turns the entire tide of the battle for the side of good.

[Gaius]

I mean, isn't it kind of the norm for these kinds of stories that the good counterparts end up beating their evil versions? Most of the characters you listed got to fight and beat their Regime counterpart.
.

Yes, then those NRS knuckleheads squandered whatever good will they had with the second game. Where Bats gets to prove his manhood by beating on both Supes and WW with no “good” version of either of the latter two. Because I guess they assumed Bruce just wasn’t given enough love in the two games

Taylor and the comics never had any goodwill. Those always sucked.

[DochaDocha]

But in the final stretch of the game he basically turns the entire tide of the battle for the side of good.

I get that, and hey, I enjoyed that part of the game's story mode. But because he shows up late to the party, he's not in the trenches with his comrades, and he misses out on most of the story-building, his presence in the game doesn't really do anything to disprove detractors who claim he's not a fully fleshed-out and interesting character. So I thank NRS for at least having that ending, but I think they still tell an incomplete take on Superman that doesn't really win over fans except the ones satisfied with characterization through action sequences.

[NaVi]

So Injustice where the entire first game revolves around how only Superman can beat another Superman?

Where all of his relative equals are made to his boot licking lackeys (Green Lantern, Flash), jobbed out to show how superior he is (Captain Marvel), or made more evil than he is so he can excused for his own actions (Wonder Woman)?

good superman defeats bad superman, one more story of bad superman. just like the new suicide squad game, where all JL is supposed to be bad minus batman (batman always the hero), but the game is sold with the image of the bad superman, superman that you have to defeat. For years out of comics, Superman is the great villain of DC, even in the cinema he had the intention of turning him into a villain.

[NaVi]

Since you have brought out injustice, in the game superman as a villain was only defeated by another superman, but in the comic he was everyone's whore, every time he fought he was defeated, even a squirrel defeated him.