The Evil Superman Discussion Thread

[Frontier]

He's very manipulative and intimidating.

You got that right .

[prepmaster]

Bruce is an otherwise incompetent baboon in that franchise.

Isnt that the main draw? The guy is always an underdog. A human among gods. He fights against the odds. But the Injustice is a fighting game so there are Kryptonian pills to equal the playing field.

[prepmaster]

But,it does mean you would jump in and act on instinct not be afraid of consequance when you need to act.Like the above punch a racist dictator with a gun.

Should Superman have a feud with Aquaman since he is/was a monarch? No respect for culture, tradition and sovereignty?

[manwhohaseverything]

Should Superman have a feud with Aquaman since he is/was a monarch? No respect for culture, tradition and sovereignty?

That depends.Him being monarch isn't much of an offence.Superman may or may not agree with that sort system of governance.But,As long as he doesn't try to expand that domain of power on those that do not wish to live under it.There won't be a problem.But if and when he does(That includes his own people).Heck! if he sees wrongful violence being perpetrated with that power .He wouldn't give a damn about sovereignty.He is already an outlaw.He's free.He does what he thinks is right.He would punch.I see no point in grandstanding "Hope" thing otherwise.It's cowardice,if he does stand by that.The problem ain't authority.it's legitimacy of it.

Also,let's put superman in that situation.The dark knight rises situation if you will.Superman starts living in atlantis for awhile.Orm decides to be the king.Orm captures a couple of surface dwellers and threatens the world with some doomsday weapon.Clark sees orm shoot a man.What do you expect clark to do?Act "smart" or act on impulse.there is no guarantee that so called "strategies" or "plans" would work.Why?Cause orm doesn't give a damn about surface world in the first place.He's not gonna be reasoned with.Clark in this situation,if acts on impulse can atleast take out orm and deal the doomsday device.Maybe even at the same time.Also,acting "Smart" more than not means "doing squat".Like the politicians in the movie with a "Our hopes and prayers are with you".Things could go wrong,very very wrong.But,the situation is already very wrong and heading towards worse.

[Amadeus Arkham]

The Evil Superman trope reminds me of another Superman analogue Goku’s evil counterparts in media. In Dragon Ball, they play with the idea of a evil Goku. In the non-canon third movie of the Z- franchise, there is a Goku look-alike named Tullece who basically represents what Goku could’ve become had he never forgotten his original alien programming to wipe out Earth’s inhabitants, and then there’s Goku Black who is a evil version of Goku from a alternate timeline. I think there’s a fascination with presenting a twisted evil version of characters who possess godlike powers, but are traditionally seen as good or righteous because it presents an interesting contrast to the classic goody two shoes archetype.

Oh, and if anyone here isn’t familiar with Dragon Ball and doesn’t understand what the hell I’n talking about then apologies for the confusion, lol.

[marhawkman]

The Evil Superman trope reminds me of another Superman analogue Goku’s evil counterparts in media. In Dragon Ball, they play with the idea of a evil Goku. In the non-canon third movie of the Z- franchise, there is a Goku look-alike named Tullece who basically represents what Goku could’ve become had he never forgotten his original alien programming to wipe out Earth’s inhabitants, and then there’s Goku Black who is a evil version of Goku from a alternate timeline. I think there’s a fascination with presenting a twisted evil version of characters who possess godlike powers, but are traditionally seen as good or righteous because it presents an interesting contrast to the classic goody two shoes archetype.

Oh, and if anyone here isn’t familiar with Dragon Ball and doesn’t understand what the hell I’n talking about then apologies for the confusion, lol.

I'mma just add a few minor corrections...

Tullece(or Turles) is apparently a relative on Goku's father's(Bardock) side of the family. BUT... neither of them is really all that keen on figuring out exactly what the relationship is. Turles hints that it might be a rather distant relationship though.

Oh also it wasn't "programming" really. Just natural bloodthirstiness of (some?) Universe 7 Saiyans. (The later mention that when the Saiyans in U7 left their original HW... most of the nice Saiyans got left behind. In Universe 6 we get to see what their original HW was like.

Goku did a lot of stuff in the original DB that'd have been major disasters if he hadn't been a nice guy. Also when they introduce the U6 Saiyans they mention that while most U6 Saiyans aren't naturally bloodthirsty like that.... Caulifla IS... so it might actually be a population ratio thing. Yeah the introduction of the Universe 6 Saiyans basically took the "good cop, bad cop" thing... and cast Goku and Vegeta as the BAD cops. At any rate, The idea Goku was naturally evil got retconned.

Also Toriyama-sama's take on canon is that anything he personally authorized is canon. a lot of it has to be "alternate timelines" though.

Goku Black is actually Goku from an alternate timeline where his soul was removed from his body and replaced with the soul of an evil Kai named Zamasu. So it sort of isn't Goku... But looks like him.

[The Overlord]

So who is the best evil Superman like character; Omni-Man, Homelander, The Plutonian, Brightburn or someone else?

[Vakanai]

So who is the best evil Superman like character; Omni-Man, Homelander, The Plutonian, Brightburn or someone else?

Ultraman, if just for the hilarious tough guy mobster voice the animated movie gave him.

[Vakanai]

DC should make an edit: No Evil Superman adaptations for the next 10 years. The only exception would be Bizarro, but the Bizarrro World version, with his Bizarro League, his cube planet and all that crazy ****.

I'm going to disagree, if only because I want to add another exception for Ultraman to appear - but only if you do the whole Crime Syndicate so evil Batman as Owlman and evil Wonder Woman as Superwoman and all that jazz.

[Johnny Thunders!]

So who is the best evil Superman like character; Omni-Man, Homelander, The Plutonian, Brightburn or someone else?

I like Ultraman the best as I said earlier, but the one that I think the really set the tone, especially after having just watched the Invincible finale, it has to be Kid Miracle Man from the Miracle Man series. Honorable mention, the Squadron Sinister's/Supreme Hyperion.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The Invincible cartoon (haven't read much of the comic) has done a pretty good job of exploring the Evil Superman story in the context of his relationship with Jonathan Kent. This isn't a spoiler by the way, unless you're talking about a plot twist from a decade ago that is revealed in the very first episode

I like how the animated series shows their cards right away, then spends the rest of series treating him as another Superman-type, but all that is colored by your knowledge of the monster lurking beneath. It's well-worth your time if you haven't already check it out.

Personally, I was completely exhausted with the Evil Superman stuff, but this sucked me in and I really enjoyed it.

[superduperman]

I'm personally done with the evil Superman trope. Not because I dislike the concept but because it's been SOOOOO overdone at this point. I read the Injustice comic. I'm good for a while. I was done with The Boys after the first episode. I'm just burned out on it. Of course the only reason why that is is because there are just so many of them. Evil Superman is like Batman at this point. Over saturation. It's also lazy. "We don't know what else to do with him so we'll just make him evil". Joker gets a realistic movie but all anyone can think to do with Superman is make him evil? Superman & Lois proved you actually can do other things with him beside kill him off or turn him into a villain.

[manwhohaseverything]

I'm personally done with the evil Superman trope. Not because I dislike the concept but because it's been SOOOOO overdone at this point. I read the Injustice comic. I'm good for a while. I was done with The Boys after the first episode. I'm just burned out on it. Of course the only reason why that is is because there are just so many of them. Evil Superman is like Batman at this point. Over saturation. It's also lazy. "We don't know what else to do with him so we'll just make him evil". Joker gets a realistic movie but all anyone can think to do with Superman is make him evil? Superman & Lois proved you actually can do other things with him beside kill him off or turn him into a villain.

Yeah!hate to break it to you.superman and lois is a family drama.That's what superman is used for.Teen drama,romance drama,family drama..etc nothing more or less.The rest of the "superheroes" operate on a different fields. either it's politics, adventure,action,scifi,fantasy, suspense or comedy.Heck!even a romcom sitcom like scarlet witch and vision is treated differently.Superman is consistently used for tv drama since the 90s which started with donner movie.That's all they can do with the character.Heck!even the evil version in invincible takes that route with the character.He is used for driving home family drama of the kid.

Now,you know what's a real evil version of superman.it's blackadam in the trailers.Nobody really sees it.that's bigger shame.An evil superman that doesn't remind people of superman.Yet,a drama character can .

Now,the show you just mentioned is precisely the problem with superman.The character is stuck in that role of drama character.Because that's the only thing you can do with a savior figure.So,they turn him him evil another thing they can do.
From a story stand point,It's easy thematically as well.The characters stories in modern day invite such slicing and dicing from byrne to birthright.What might that be? Clark's moral centre is other people,not his own will.whether it be sky parents,earth parents or lois or jimmy or whatever.He is a freaking gun that others use.which can be evil ways or good.as long as this exists and clark kent accepts. superman will always turn evil.

"There is a reason for you being here"

[Vakanai]

Yeah!hate to break it to you.superman and lois is a family drama.That's what superman is used for.Teen drama,romance drama,family drama..etc nothing more or less.The rest of the "superheroes" operate on a different fields. either it's politics, adventure,action,scifi,fantasy, suspense or comedy.Heck!even a romcom sitcom like scarlet witch and vision is treated differently.Superman is consistently used for tv drama since the 90s which started with donner movie.That's all they can do with the character.Heck!even the evil version in invincible takes that route with the character.He is used for driving home family drama of the kid.

Now,you know what's a real evil version of superman.it's blackadam in the trailers.Nobody really sees it.that's bigger shame.An evil superman that doesn't remind people of superman.Yet,a drama character can .

Now,the show you just mentioned is precisely the problem with superman.The character is stuck in that role of drama character.Because that's the only thing you can do with a savior figure.So,they turn him him evil another thing they can do.
From a story stand point,It's easy thematically as well.The characters stories in modern day invite such slicing and dicing from byrne to birthright.What might that be? Clark's moral centre is other people,not his own will.whether it be sky parents,earth parents or lois or jimmy or whatever.He is a freaking gun that others use.which can be evil ways or good.as long as this exists and clark kent accepts. superman will always turn evil.

"There is a reason for you being here"

This is why I'm not a fan of the show. I'm not a Superman fan because I'm big into family drama shows. Sadly the only Superman content we get in live action is the lame and boring family drama stuff (tastes and opinions may vary), or Snyder's/Cavill's divisive take. Between the two, I'll take the CW one - it's easier for me to turn out the boring crap in the middle and perk up again when he's doing and being Superman. As bleh as I find the setting, the family drama, and the teens, when Superman is actually doing Superman stuff it's pretty damn satisfying. Oh, what I wouldn't give if the whole show was just that...

[Yoda]

The Invincible cartoon (haven't read much of the comic) has done a pretty good job of exploring the Evil Superman story in the context of his relationship with Jonathan Kent. This isn't a spoiler by the way, unless you're talking about a plot twist from a decade ago that is revealed in the very first episode

I like how the animated series shows their cards right away, then spends the rest of series treating him as another Superman-type, but all that is colored by your knowledge of the monster lurking beneath. It's well-worth your time if you haven't already check it out.

Personally, I was completely exhausted with the Evil Superman stuff, but this sucked me in and I really enjoyed it.

Is Omni-Man really a "evil" Superman trope the way the series eventually plays out? If you didn't stick with the comics or are just coming into it from the Amazon show, I can see how he'd play that way. But I don't really think of him as one in the long run. Ha, now I'm in the weird space where I don't know if I need spoiler tags because the decades old twist is new to a lot of people who are coming in cold to the show.