The Evil Superman Discussion Thread

[I'm a Fish]

Pretty much this. Superman isn't a character for Snyder, at least not since DC let him use Batman. Superman is just a plot device. And let's be honest, Zack Snyder won't be able to give us a better Evil Superman than The Boys did, Homelander is great and is all the evil Superman I needed.

Yeah, Homelander is great because you can understand how he got to be so messed up and still hate his guts. The happiness and acceptance he desperately desires is well within his grasp, but his stunted emotional development prevents him from ever achieving it.

The best villains are villains who are self-destructive, their greatest enemy isn't really the hero, but themselves. For those kinds of villains, the hero is more or less a vessel the villain projects their insincerities onto.

[SiegePerilous02]

Also in that interview, Snyder's reason for wanting an evil Superman baffles me. He says he wants to take Superman from one extreme to the other, to break his morality and I guess make Superman a more interesting character by giving him this character arch?

But what character arc? In the leaked plot, evil Superman was going to disappear when Flash runs back to alter the time line. Superman was going to have no memories of evil Superman. Superman was never going to meet evil Superman.

That's not a character arc. Superman learns nothing.

It's like having a nightmare were you're a bad guy and waking up with no memory of that dream you had. Not only does it not matter because it's not reality (it's a dream), but it doesn't even effect your view of yourself or the world because you don't remember it, you don't confront it.

The Knightmare timeline would be fine as an elseworld story, but in a Justice League trilogy it baffles me that it was a plot point. Why waste so much screen time for a plot that gets erased without a trace? Maybe Snyder would have fixed it so Superman remembers, but who knows.

Yes he doesn't really have a defined character as it is, and this would just be him being brainwashed against his will and saved through presumably no effort of his own. No lessons learned and no aspects of his character fleshed out, no agency. Just a complete waste of time

[Gaius]

Also in that interview, Snyder's reason for wanting an evil Superman baffles me. He says he wants to take Superman from one extreme to the other, to break his morality and I guess make Superman a more interesting character by giving him this character arch?

But what character arc? In the leaked plot, evil Superman was going to disappear when Flash runs back to alter the time line. Superman was going to have no memories of evil Superman. Superman was never going to meet evil Superman.

That's not a character arc. Superman learns nothing.

It's like having a nightmare were you're a bad guy and waking up with no memory of that dream you had. Not only does it not matter because it's not reality (it's a dream), but it doesn't even effect your view of yourself or the world because you don't remember it, you don't confront it.

The Knightmare timeline would be fine as an elseworld story, but in a Justice League trilogy it baffles me that it was a plot point. Why waste so much screen time for a plot that gets erased without a trace? Maybe Snyder would have fixed it so Superman remembers, but who knows.

I can kind of get wanting to some alternate Elseworlds-like take on Superman and Batman in the movies given they've had over a dozen shared between them but roping in characters like Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman who largely have not had the same presentation on the big screen as the aforementioned two. Yeah, no thanks to that.

[manwhohaseverything]

Ha! I love Invincible and the animation is honoring the source material in the best way possible. And yes, Omni Man is just another great example of evil Superman troupe done right. Again, Snyder brainwashed Superman just can't compete, DC should use Superman as the hero he is, instead of a villain for Batman and the JL to beat.

I fairly certain,superman was the one who was doing the beating up.Also enjoying invincible(although i am at second episode),big fan of jon kent.So,was always gonna check it out.

[JAK]

Yes he doesn't really have a defined character as it is, and this would just be him being brainwashed against his will and saved through presumably no effort of his own. No lessons learned and no aspects of his character fleshed out, no agency. Just a complete waste of time

Yep. Then again, the rest of the movies were a complete waste of *my* time (besides seeing a small sliver of Henry Cavill's potential, which I got from teaser scenes of MoS anyway), so it would fit the pattern. lol

[Ra-El]

I fairly certain,superman was the one who was doing the beating up.Also enjoying invincible(although i am at second episode),big fan of jon kent.So,was always gonna check it out.

I knew you would like it!

Omni Man teaching Mark the mechanics of fighting with flight is the kind of thinking we wish DC would put on Superman action scenes.

[manwhohaseverything]

I knew you would like it!

Omni Man teaching Mark the mechanics of fighting with flight is the kind of thinking we wish DC would put on Superman action scenes.

DC does put on some fighting sequences with superman like for death of superman.Unfortunatley the sequances are very boring.It's just punch,punch and punch.When they do something creative like the sequances in that man of tomorrow movie or young justice.it doesn't really last long nor is it part of the story.the action should be one with the story and part of the conflict.As a guy who sees god like aliens using wierd fighting powers and mixing it with familiar stuff elsewhere .It can feel like it's a little watered down.really really watered down.It's like it's there for saying "Hey! guys here is some action".

But Yeah!for an american show,the action was great.And the above complaint action not feeling part of the story is non-existant so far.Still the animation could be a bit more fluid.A bit more sakuga.Maybe i am just spoiled rotten.I am also not a fan of the artstyle due to it being familiar for me.Maybe that was intentional,it's certainly feels dcanimated.spoilers:

Omni man wrecking an entire planet of the invaders was a mark out moment.The kid and the intergalactic police guy talking was a riot too"urath".

end of spoilers.

[TheSuperMule]

This is my favorite Evil Superman: https://whywouldyoudothatsuperman.ytmnd.com/

[GreatKungLao]

Also in that interview, Snyder's reason for wanting an evil Superman baffles me. He says he wants to take Superman from one extreme to the other, to break his morality and I guess make Superman a more interesting character by giving him this character arch?

But what character arc? In the leaked plot, evil Superman was going to disappear when Flash runs back to alter the time line. Superman was going to have no memories of evil Superman. Superman was never going to meet evil Superman.

That's not a character arc. Superman learns nothing.

It's like having a nightmare were you're a bad guy and waking up with no memory of that dream you had. Not only does it not matter because it's not reality (it's a dream), but it doesn't even effect your view of yourself or the world because you don't remember it, you don't confront it.

The Knightmare timeline would be fine as an elseworld story, but in a Justice League trilogy it baffles me that it was a plot point. Why waste so much screen time for a plot that gets erased without a trace? Maybe Snyder would have fixed it so Superman remembers, but who knows.

I think Cyborg and Batman would've told the League about their visions, hence them trying to prevent it again since first time it didn't work when Flash traveled to BvS. So Superman would've been most likely aware of what he might become.

[JackDaw]

To be honest, I don’t think idea of an outright evil Superman is remotely interesting.

In contrast, idea of a guy who went all out to use all his powers to actually fundamentally change society for the better (like the characters in the Warren Ellis Authority run) would interest me.

But 99.9 percent sure Superman will never be written that way in mainstream DC comics...it would break too many of the sacred cows of mainstream super hero comics.

[manwhohaseverything]

To be honest, I don’t think idea of an outright evil Superman is remotely interesting.

In contrast, idea of a guy who went all out to use all his powers to actually fundamentally change society for the better (like the characters in the Warren Ellis Authority run) would interest me.

But 99.9 percent sure Superman will never be written that way in mainstream DC comics...it would break too many of the sacred cows of mainstream super hero comics.

I think black Adam in the trailers Is the kinda evil superman thing I could go for. Heck!I would prefer superman going back to his Zorro roots.These guys and their white Knights are boring for me anyhow.i prefer the gladiator-esque cheeky, arrogant, impulsive and reckless guy with a fiery attitude.

[kalai]

To be honest, I don’t think idea of an outright evil Superman is remotely interesting.

In contrast, idea of a guy who went all out to use all his powers to actually fundamentally change society for the better (like the characters in the Warren Ellis Authority run) would interest me.

But 99.9 percent sure Superman will never be written that way in mainstream DC comics...it would break too many of the sacred cows of mainstream super hero comics.

You gotta check out Miracleman by Alan Moore, the ending of that is essentially this.

[chamber-music]

There are multiple evil or rogue versions of Superman analogues. Ultraman, Superboy Prime, Cyborg Superman, Eradicator, Bizarro, Injustice Superman, Red Kryptonite influenced Superman, ect.

Anti-life mindless slave Superman didn't even sound like the most interesting evil or corrupted Superman they could of used.

[DochaDocha]

Mindless puppet hero can be interesting in a solo title. Don't get me wrong, if I never saw another such Superman story, I'd be super thrilled, but that doesn't mean I don't think some of the older stories with this take were necessarily bad. But the interesting versions of these stories happened in Superman books or shows.

If that were to happen on a JL movie? F&%! that. We basically saw it in Avengers, and I don't think it did Hawkeye any favors. I know Jeremy Renner wasn't happy about it, and maybe it was a problem for Cavill, too.

I realize the above just creates a scenario where I'm saying mindless puppet can make for a good Superman solo film... but not, that'd also be terrible for long-term fans. I mean, how many times do you want to see Superman fighting against the good guys?

[Alpha]

This is my favorite Evil Superman: https://whywouldyoudothatsuperman.ytmnd.com/

Hahahaha. Still don't understand why Manwhohaseverything wants this version of Superman. I agree that Superman needs to actually make an effort to change the world, but this isn't it.