Things You Don't Like in Versions/Runs of Wonder Woman You Do Like

[Gaius]

I don't think the editorial interference preventing her from making Genocide made from Knockout's corpse helped matters. It at least would have tied into her other book in an interesting way. As it is, Genocide is a low point of her run, but since we know editorial inserted themselves into things it's hard to tell how much of it being underwhelming is on her

Yeah, from what I heard that change was pretty last minute as far as editorial edicts go so that certainly wouldn't have helped.

Though a better design for Genocide might have gone a long way.

[Jim Kelly]

The mod Diana Prince comics are pretty much my favourite issues of WONDER WOMAN, but I have a few misgivings. The character was a co-creation of Jack Miller, Carmine Infantino, Mike Sekowsy and Denny O'Neil (Miller and Infantino co-created Deadman at about the same time). While I like the blind mentor and master of the marial arts (I wonder if this charactrer influenced Frank Miller's version for DAREDEVIL, which O'Neil edited), I Ching is a stupid name. I think he was Denny's idea and he's to blame for the name and the stereotype. In issues after O'Neil, when Sekowsky was writer and editor in addition to artist, Ching became a better character and not a stereotype.

Since the blind mentor says he was part of a monastery that was saved by Steve Trevor--and thus his debt to Trevor which he repays by training Diana--maybe "I Ching" is just a codename given him by American Military Intelligence. That's how I explain it to myself.

When O'Neil came back as editor, after Sekowsky left, Denny and Samuel L. Delaney made some gaffs writing Diana. Where Sekowsky made her a woman with no hang-ups, free to date men and still be true to her values, O'Neil and Delaney made her too dependent on men. And the worst was the final issue of this run which was called a "Special Women's Lib Issue"--as if all the previous 202 issues of WONDER WOMAN weren't special issues about women's rights and freedoms. That comic had Diana saying stupid things. Maybe they just did such a bad issue so people wouldn't mind the next issue when every good thing accomplished by the mod run was thrown out the window along with Dorothy Woolfolk and the blind mentor.

[Agent Z]

Perez: The Bana being more aggressive and antagonistic though he handled this better than most.

Rucka: Diana being cut off from Themyscira and the Steve relationship being brought back (I don't hate Steve I just don't care for the relationship much).

Gee, I always thought that was one of the great things about Marston: the redemption of Paula and her becoming a great supporting cast member. It made Wonder Woman distinctive--she didn't just talk the talk, she walked the walk. Other super-heroes talk about redeeming their adversaries, but they don't do anything about it--she did. I wish there was more of that. That should be Diana's primary focus--finding broken people and helping them become better.

Frankly, a lot of stuff from the original run has gotten better with age. The narrow view that it must be outdated probably stops too many creators from seeing the value in the work.

Some of the ideas Marston had were progressive. The execution of those ideas are outdated. This isn't even getting into issues like the depiction of non-white people, using BDSM as a framework for leadership which any political scientist will tell you is laughable, the sexualization of women (which admittedly isn't exclusive to him), the horrible idea for "reforming" people which is actually just torture.

Perez's work is outdated in some areas as well but holds up a lot better due to distance from Martson's era and being allowed to properly examine progressive ideals. Wonder Woman is not going to last if people keep putting everything Marston did on a pedestal. The man was human like everyone else.

[John Venus]

The issue is that even Marston's progressive ideas aren't being carried forward either. Sure, his take on reformation was creepy but the core idea of reforming people instead of treating them like lost causes is a valid one and worth continuing. So is love and compassion being the antidote to war and aggression. The Amazons being a society that 'evolved beyond war' as per his description and could teach humanity about love and peace is another.

[Agent Z]

The issue is that even Marston's progressive ideas aren't being carried forward either. Sure, his take on reformation was creepy but the core idea of reforming people instead of treating them like lost causes is a valid one and worth continuing.

That might be true but given the hostility towards reforming villains that superhero fans have (and this includes even WW fans) I highly doubt it would have been accepted going forward. Hell, plenty of people on this very board have complained when a villain is depicted as too sympathetic even though such a thing wouldn't be out of place in a WW story written by Marston.

So is love and compassion being the antidote to war and aggression. The Amazons being a society that 'evolved beyond war' as per his description and could teach humanity about love and peace is another.

This is one idea that is well meaning but is kind of simplistic and ignorant of the issues that cause wars in the first place (sometimes people fight wars because they're trying to stop other people from massacring or enslaving them). The Amazons having "evolved beyond war" is the exact kind of ammo people use against the Wonder Woman franchise being simple-minded and misandrist. Even Marston's take on the Amazons didn't truly live up to that ideal.

To be clear, I'm not even saying I would be against all of these ideas but I do think there are a lot of... obstacles to them.

[John Venus]

People might complain on boards but the reason why people DC is pushing anti-hero Harley and Ivy is because they are popular with the general public. The choice in villains and the execution of the trope might irk some but reformed or villains trying to reform are still hugely popular with people. Look at Loki or Harley's popularity. Hell, even Batman could stand to have more reformed villains since it would give legs to his 'no kill' rule.

Yes, the reasons for war are complicated but the point of WW is that you have a character who can look at our world and it's problems with fresh eyes. Question of how/why war is fought and it's effects are something that is meant to examined and deconstructed. Nuances that writers of the past missed can be filled in by ones that arrive later. That's the beauty of a continuing narrative.

Marston wants us to imagine a society without war. It's the wish fulfillment aspect of the franchise. Amazons can still be flawed and have their own internal strife without being barbarians.