Would You Want Marvel To Use A Public Domain Superman? Others?

[Mike_Murdock]

Marvel can do derivative works based on Action Comics #1, but they can't copy from later Superman developments. This means things like his ability to fly won't be allowed.

[Killerbee911]

Marvel can do derivative works based on Action Comics #1, but they can't copy from later Superman developments. This means things like his ability to fly won't be allowed.

I mean I know from watching All Might in MHA that isn't really a big deal but couldn't you add some new powers to this Public domain character like say tactile telekinesis and the character does not fly but floats via telepathically lifting himself?

[MadFacedKid]

There isn't much benefit to Superman in Marvel imo, Superman works at DC because he is THE hero, The reason the superman clones haven't work at Marvel (and the closest version to working imo being Sentry) because they aren't allowed to be "The Man". Sentry was allowed to be the man for a little bit and you saw flashes of him working, then they start to treat him like a regular Marvel character which means he is going to lose(see Thor and Hulk) or at times devalued because at Marvel deconstructing and breaking your characters is standard fare. Which lead to Sentry falling off imo

Yes Superman would work a lot better than Sentry but at Marvel "the Man" slot has been held by Cap, Iron Man, Black Panther and even Captain Marvel a little bit. "The most powerful superhero" has been held by Hulk, Thor, Sentry, Silver Surfer, etc. The point being Superman isn't a good fit for a universe that is willing to shift the top roles. Superman at Marvel would just be "Thor" which is more than good enough but without a whole universe built to prop up and praise the character the "OMG" factor of Superman isn't going to be there.

Now Public Domain Flash (or Wonder Woman) those are different stories. Marvel is built for timeline screw-ups that Public Domain Flash would bring and no character worth mentioning is in his lane at Marvel.

How has Captain Marvel been the Man? Unless your referring to the movies? Surprisingly you forgot to mention Thor.


I agree with everything you said for the most part though. It emphasizes the point I was trying to make but better worded on your part.

So Superman would have at Marvel the exact same role he have at DC for the last 30+ years?

Given none of his Marvel parodies have 2 titles a month or even 1 I doubt it.

Given events like Doomsday clock where the world is said to revolve around Superman or the multiverse. I doubt Marvel would put that much importance on Superman. Or that any event book he’d be headlining in front of Thor or Captain America. Marvel seems more focused on pushing characters they’re invested into from the films as well and if he doesn’t have a film around the corner or plans for one we probably won’t see much of him.

[jwatson]

A dark version could be interesting. Have him take on the name superman because he thinks he is better than everyone else. Personally i could never get behind superman in the beginning, the truth and justice thing is too much for me coming from someone who hides his identity. If he is hiding his own for a reason than surely someone else must be as well. It's always been very easy for me to see superman taking the wrong turn.

[Hypestyle]

might as well use other public domain concepts, wherever they may be found. Should have an editorial committee doing research on this.

It would have been great, for example, for the Golden Age Daredevil to be bought out by Marvel, but it didn't happen. And now Dynamite Publishing controls him.

[Killerbee911]

How has Captain Marvel been the Man? Unless your referring to the movies? Surprisingly you forgot to mention Thor.

Civil War 2 "era", Magically Captain Marvel commanded enough respect to be leading basically the heroes of Marvel. For that period of time She was "the man" both Marvel and DC do it , they randomly give out chairman/leader of the Avengers or Justice League to try to boost a character standing.

It works a little better at being that Marvel they typically push an event or two for this leader to show that they are an amazing leader and typically get major government backing beyond being just the leader of the Avengers so you can easily see when they are trying to make a character "the man". Marvel general pushes more tactical, intelligent or inspirational leader than most powerful hero and heart of the team as "the man".

might as well use other public domain concepts, wherever they may be found. Should have an editorial committee doing research on this.

It would have been great, for example, for the Golden Age Daredevil to be bought out by Marvel, but it didn't happen. And now Dynamite Publishing controls him.

Marvel should still be able to use that Daredevil, He is public domain you would just have to avoid using things distinctive to the Dynamite version. Just as a note the Dynamite version is called Death Defying "Devil" to avoid Marvel trademarks on Daredevil .

[Ascended]

An interesting take considering corporations are people with natural rights and wholly separate entities from the individuals who comprise them according to legal doctrine.

My kingdom to whoever overturns that abomination of a supreme court ruling!

Peter Parker and the Daily Bugle cast lately hasn't featured much in Spider-Man comics

So Superman and Lois can make the Bugle feel central again as a permanent supporting fixture.

Ah, I didn't know Parker was still away from the Bugle. I figured he'd have wandered back by now. Obviously, I'm not a big Spider reader.

In that case yeah, the Supers working at the Bugle would be a pretty fantastic way to keep that setting and cast active without having to regress Parker. I'd be all for it, cool idea man.

Honestly... no. I imagine there is an unspoken code between Marvel and DC when it comes to these things. Like, they can make satire and homage to one another (like with the Squadron Supreme), but actually ''stealing'' THE character from the the other company seems like it would be... uncourteous?

I imagine there has been, is, or will be a gentleman's agreement between them, yeah. There's a million reasons why Superman is very unlikely to enter the public domain, or be used if he does, this thread was just for the hypothetical of it somehow, impossibly, happening.

I could see some of the indie publishers running with it if they could though.

[Ascended]

Random thought, but I think if I were gonna try to introduce a public domain, Golden Age redux Superman into the MU....I'd start him off with the Marvel Knights/Hell's Kitchen crowd. This is a Superman who fought for the little guy and had limited powers, a temper, a sense of justice and humor both that could be a little cruel, and he definitely killed some people....I feel like he'd fit in well with the likes of Daredevil, Luke Cage, Punisher, etc.

And I'd totally hyphenate that name; he'd be the Super-Man.

Marvel can do derivative works based on Action Comics #1, but they can't copy from later Superman developments. This means things like his ability to fly won't be allowed.

I think that might actually be a point in favor of a public domain version, honestly.

Feels like if a publisher was just going to copy what National/DC did, there's not much point to it. But using those early issues as a foundation to build on, and getting a different kind of Superman out of it who is more than his early Golden Age self but different from modern DC's? Lots of potential there, I think, and a chance to redefine what the character means in today's world that DC simply can't take.

I think it'd be a hell of a tough job to pull off any new version of Clark in a way that could actually stick, not to mention the mountain of potential hurdles on the legal end....but I do think there's a world out there where such a hypothetical could result in a truly fantastic Superman.

I mean I know from watching All Might in MHA that isn't really a big deal but couldn't you add some new powers to this Public domain character like say tactile telekinesis and the character does not fly but floats via telepathically lifting himself?

....I'm not sure if flying via telekinesis would be enough of a differential for Marvel to get away with, honestly. But like I've said, copyright/trademark is a part of business that I didn't study much. Rocket boots, a flying motorcycle (his original space ship perhaps?), those would probably be allowed but my guess is that any kind of self-propelled flight would be a non-starter.

[JudicatorPrime]

Like Thor and Hercules?

Marvel already has its Thor and Hercules. They also have other public domain creations like Dracula and the Werewolf. But there are other public domain characters that Marvel hasn't used yet.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Marvel can do derivative works based on Action Comics #1, but they can't copy from later Superman developments. This means things like his ability to fly won't be allowed.

It wouldn't take long for a PD Superman to get his ability to fly. More Superman comics will join the public domain every year once Action Comics #1 does.

[Odd Rödney]

the Batgod shtick they do puts the lie to that.

God I'm sick of all that!

[Lee Stone]

One important thing to take away from this...

Is that when Superman’s first appearance enters the public domain in 2033, Disney will be walking on eggshells about whether or not they use him and how much, if they do.
Disney is even more protective of their properties, and openly using Superman, even the stripped down pre-animation version, would open up a can of worms that they might not want to open.
Namely, Mickey Mouse and Captain America.

They’re most likely going to refrain from doing anything that they wouldn’t want someone else to do, because if they do, it would show everyone else that there was a green light to do so.

[useridgoeshere]

I wouldn't want to see Marvel do anything with Superman. I wouldn't mind seeing independent creative folks - writers, filmmakers, etc. - get the chance to do original stuff with the character. The trademark bs is something that will have to reach a head at some point because it completely upends the spirit of public domain.

[JudicatorPrime]

I'm not sure if flying via telekinesis would be enough of a differential for Marvel to get away with, honestly. But like I've said, copyright/trademark is a part of business that I didn't study much. Rocket boots, a flying motorcycle (his original space ship perhaps?), those would probably be allowed but my guess is that any kind of self-propelled flight would be a non-starter.

I agree.

Since an infringement would be contested in front of a jury, the trick is to make Superman's mode of transportation sufficiently distinct that the layperson can see a difference. Telekinetic flight wouldn't cut it. Leaping wouldn't, either, I don't imagine. Anything that appears like Superman is a man flying under his own power would likely move the empaneled to side with DC. That likely includes something like a flying armored suit, winged sandals from Hermes, cloaks of levitation, bird and/or angel wings, and Wonder Man's old belt jet pack.

That said, there are other modes of self-powered transportation. Teleportation, for example. Or shadow walking, where he has the power to emerge from shadows. Converting himself into pure energy works, too, so long as it's a ball of energy, or transforming his body into something like the Phoenix firebird in order to "fly." The important thing is that at no time can he appear to be a humanoid form in flight.

As for other modes of transportation, I'm willing to bet he could probably get away with riding a flying Sun disk like an Egyptian god -- or a surfboard like the Silver Surfer. Or one of High Evolutionary's Atomic Steeds. Or maybe Black Knight will let him borrow Aragorn. Aw, the hell with it, just give him Thor's chariot with Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder.

"Look up in the sky. Is it a bird? Is it a plane?" Nope, just the G.O.A.T. riding goats.

[Ascended]

Leaping would probably get a pass I'm guessing, since it's something Clark was able to do from the start. But just to make sure, I'd personally treat his movement like super parkour; He wouldn't just leap and sail through the air Hulk style, he'd ping-pong across the city. I think that'd be visually distinct enough there wouldn't be any threat of infringement.

And I think I would have him use his space ship for longer trips; it's toyetic as well as different from Clark's usual self-propelled flight.

As I understand it, if Mickey or Clark or Bruce or whoever did actually hit PD, it'd set legal precedent because we've never had a property remain in active, continual use long enough to hit PD, so that lack of clear legal precedent could make things pretty murky. And this is a side of business I'm vague on anyway. But this whole discussion wasn't about the actual probability of this happening, it's just a chance for us to nerd out on the idea a little.