Would You Want Marvel To Use A Public Domain Superman? Others?

[Ravin' Ray]

First appearance Superman would be so underpowered compared to 2021 Superman or Marvel's own pastiches that if he is used as he was, he'd be unrecognizable to modern audiences. It would be interesting to see how creative Marvel would be to tweak him and make him work alongside its own superheroes.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

First appearance Superman would be so underpowered compared to 2021 Superman or Marvel's own pastiches that if he is used as he was, he'd be unrecognizable to modern audiences.

The problem used to be Superman is too powerful and now the issue is Golden Age Superman is too "underpowered"? Lol.

It would be interesting to see how creative Marvel would be to tweak him and make him work alongside its own superheroes.

There's more to Superman than his superpowers. If Superman could simply jump really high and basically resist bullets in his early comics how is it that he became such a huge popular success out of the gate? The so-called "wimp Superman" of the Post-Crisis John Byrne era i.e. "The Man of Steel" was one of the most successful comics of the '80s.

I could see the indies using a PD Superman before Marvel....but I also can't say for certain that Marvel wouldn't take advantage either, if certain things lined up right; it *is* Superman after all, and even with some subpar comics and films he's a bigger deal than pretty much anyone else.

If Superman enters the PD, Marvel would approach it the way all PD properties are approached by them. Because Marvel only uses PD selectively and if it's in their interest, so them being cautious and hesitant would not surprise me at all.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

PD Superman wouldn't be any less powerful than Fleischer Superman (minus flight).

Even in regards to his ability to fly, it won't be long until that becomes PD too. Plus, Morrison's first story arc in Action Comics proves you can tell a good modern Superman story where he doesn't fly.

[JudicatorPrime]

First appearance Superman would be so underpowered compared to 2021 Superman or Marvel's own pastiches that if he is used as he was, he'd be unrecognizable to modern audiences. It would be interesting to see how creative Marvel would be to tweak him and make him work alongside its own superheroes.

For Marvel it's always been about characterization over power set. While there are undoubtedly some very powerful beings in the MU, it's not entirely a coincidence that so many of them often lose their abilities, or mantles, so that writers can focus on the person without the cape.

One possible take that Marvel could do with a Superman adaptation is to do just that and show the struggles of being a prophetically messianic being, albeit one who clearly lacks the top-end powers of the Almighty to carry out his overwhelming responsibility.

I'd probably go one step further and introduce a mental health aspect to the story. One day young Clark either hears voices, and/or has visions and thinks he's starting to lose touch with reality. He sometimes speaks to people in the room that no one sees. Not even his parents. At their worst, his body convulses in seizure like throes whenever he sees the most realistic visions. They abate during the day (due to sunlight), but every night he succumbs to increasingly more violently debilitating episodes. His parents check him into an asylum as a 7-year old boy and it's the last time he hears from them. They perish in a car accident some 50 miles down the road after dropping off Clark. He doesn't know this. And the sinister folks at the asylum never bother to tell him the truth. If the visions and voices weren't crushing, the pains of abandonment most certainly are. He spends the next 11 years of his life in the asylum. When he's finally released, Clark tries to find his parents, but only manages to discover that he was part of an illegal child adoption ring and his parents may not have been who they claimed to be. He never finds them. (Many years later, his paramour and future wife, intrepid detective Dakota North, helps him solve the mystery.) Somehow, through all of these tribulations and more, Clark becomes Superman. Because the visions and voices never stopped.

Well, at least that's one possible take.

[JudicatorPrime]

And yes, I'm totally shipping Clark Kent and Dakota North. Who needs a Lois Lane?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

For Marvel it's always been about characterization over power set. While there are undoubtedly some very powerful beings in the MU, it's not entirely a coincidence that so many of them often lose their abilities, or mantles, so that writers can focus on the person without the cape.

One possible take that Marvel could do with a Superman adaptation is to do just that and show the struggles of being a prophetically messianic being, albeit one who clearly lacks the top-end powers of the Almighty to carry out his overwhelming responsibility.

I'd probably go one step further and introduce a mental health aspect to the story. One day young Clark either hears voices, and/or has visions and thinks he's starting to lose touch with reality. He sometimes speaks to people in the room that no one sees. Not even his parents. At their worst, his body convulses in seizure like throes whenever he sees the most realistic visions. They abate during the day (due to sunlight), but every night he succumbs to increasingly more violently debilitating episodes. His parents check him into an asylum as a 7-year old boy and it's the last time he hears from them. They perish in a car accident some 50 miles down the road after dropping off Clark. He doesn't know this. And the sinister folks at the asylum never bother to tell him the truth. If the visions and voices weren't crushing, the pains of abandonment most certainly are. He spends the next 11 years of his life in the asylum. When he's finally released, Clark tries to find his parents, but only manages to discover that he was part of an illegal child adoption ring and his parents may not have been who they claimed to be. He never finds them. (Many years later, his paramour and future wife, intrepid detective Dakota North, helps him solve the mystery.) Somehow, through all of these tribulations and more, Clark becomes Superman. Because the visions and voices never stopped.

Well, at least that's one possible take.

I'd read that.

Make it so Marvel....XD.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

For Marvel it's always been about characterization over power set.

Exactly.

One possible take that Marvel could do with a Superman adaptation is to do just that and show the struggles of being a prophetically messianic being, albeit one who clearly lacks the top-end powers of the Almighty to carry out his overwhelming responsibility.

Superman being a prophetically messianic being isn't a part of his story. Superman started out as just a dude with powers in a costume. Let him be that.

One of the appeals of a PD Superman is that you can detach and cut off Superman from all the excess baggage that people dropped on him over the years.

[JudicatorPrime]

Superman being a prophetically messianic being isn't a part of his story.

Isn't he, though? Aren't all superheroes in some sense perceived as saviors? Why else do we create them, if not so that they can do the things that we can't do ourselves? DC may have taken it more literally and certainly more heavy handedly than intended, but Superman's purpose from day 1 was to save the day and in some way redeem us from our own human flaws. The spells messianic to me.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Isn't he, though? Aren't all superheroes in some sense perceived as saviors? Why else do we create them, if not so that they can do the things that we can't do ourselves? DC may have taken it more literally and certainly more heavy handedly than intended, but Superman's purpose from day 1 was to save the day and in some way redeem us from our own human flaws. The spells messianic to me.

That's confusing subtext with text. Interpreting superheroes as a modern day mythology or seeing superheroes as quasi-religious figures is a metaphor for superhero fandom and as a metaphor it explains something, but I don't know if you an ascribe that sentiment directly to the characters, story, and genre as it was originally put out.

At the end of the day, superheroes aren't religious or mythological figures. Actual mythological figures like Perseus or Heracles had temples dedicated to them, people punishing others for acts of blasphemy to these statues (and yeah, contrary to some neo-pagan beliefs that polytheistic pre-Christian faiths were more tolerant, the fact is a lot of the fervor and fanaticism and fundamentalism was common and is common across monotheistic and polytheistic or other forms of belief). It's perfectly valid for people, writers and artists and others to interpret superheroes as myths and so on, and there's interesting material that comes out of it certainly, but at the end of the day, first and foremost these are fictional characters. What I mean is Sherlock Holmes is a legendary larger-than-life literary icon, but at the end of the day he's a character with a job, a background, and a place to hang his hat.

Superman first and foremost is a character in a story, he's Clark Kent who pines for Lois but who he can only impress when he's Superman because in order to protect his identity, Clark must act as a coward in front of her and be a courageous figure as Supes. (All of that is there in AC#1 by the way).

By the way, here's a doozy, I looked at AC#1 and the opening caption introducing Superman and you'll never believe what's there. Here's Jerry Siegel on the mike:

"SUPERMAN! Champion of the Oppressed! The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need!"

The word marvel is already there.

[useridgoeshere]

"SUPERMAN! Champion of the Oppressed! The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need!"

The champion of the oppressed is the most interesting part of OG Superman and that'd be what I hope new (non-corporate) creators could better explore.

[Ascended]

First appearance Superman would be so underpowered compared to 2021 Superman or Marvel's own pastiches that if he is used as he was, he'd be unrecognizable to modern audiences. It would be interesting to see how creative Marvel would be to tweak him and make him work alongside its own superheroes.

I think that's largely the point, isn't it? To put their own spin on the original creation, without all the baggage and history and the sheer *legend* of what the original has gained?

Bring on the low powered champion of the oppressed. You need to look no further than Morrison's early Action issues and Yang's Smashes the Klan to get an idea of how Golden Age Superman can function today, and matter more and have more to say than he has in decades.

Not saying it'll happen or even that it should, but I can see a world where OG Clark could fit into the structure of the MU.

By the way, here's a doozy, I looked at AC#1 and the opening caption introducing Superman and you'll never believe what's there. Here's Jerry Siegel on the mike:

"SUPERMAN! Champion of the Oppressed! The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need!"

The word marvel is already there.

Huh, no sh*t. That's cool.

[captchuck]

Not long after Superman, Batman becomes public domain with Robin, The Joker and Catwoman following the year after that. I would assume somebody would take advantage of that!

[Killerbee911]

"SUPERMAN! Champion of the Oppressed! The physical marvel who had sworn to devote his existence to helping those in need!"

The word marvel is already there.

So basically Luke Cage. Note my argument again it isn't that what you are doesn't saying work. I 100% believe that would work as a concept. But let's do a check list

-Super Strenght
-Bulletproof
-T-shirt and Jeans
-Champion of the oppressed
-Love interest that investigate stuff that could get her trouble
- Simple Superhero name with "man" in a word for strength

Now again I get your earlier point they could easily make them different and finding a place for both characters in Marvel, I mean if Nightwing and Daredevil were both at Marvel I think both could be successful. My argument is Marvel is a pretty rich universe with characters with potential for use and PD Superman does bring much more advantages and has enough limitation away from the original creation I don't see the point in doing but I wouldn't mind see it. But especially after typing the comparison to Luke Cage to Golden age Superman I would rather them put the energy into making Luke Cage all the things people suggesting they do with PD superman.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I'm curious... If PD Superman shows up one day in the MU, would the Stan Lee heroes have years of experience on him or would he be retconned into having always been there like Sentry?

Having a rookie 22-year old Superman and Batman next to a 28-year old veteran Spider-Man would be trippy.

[jwatson]

Actually thinking about it it would be perfect to just use the name. With what is happening it would be funny and kind of cool instead of sentinels you get the Supermen who consider themselves humanities last "defense" from extinction. the supermen vs, the mutants.