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  1. #541
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    Well, that was a pretty damn good comic. Between how deliciously rotten (while still keeping some inner... I won't say "morals", they're more like "scruples") Manchester Black is, and how clearly pissed off and willing to do morally muddy things Superman is behind that thin veneer of "classic heroism" (while also still being clearly a classic hero), that's some very entertaining friction and hopefully even more to come.

    I do believe this Superman was 100% intended to be on the 5G Didio timeline. That line about being lost in time is just there to allow the reader to make mental gymnastics to justify why it's not, and they still sound fake.

    Other notes while skimming through it again:
    - Morrison's really milking Manchester Black's title, right? "He's Black!" Even got some sexual innuendo in there.
    - The depiction of how Manchester Black fucks up people's perception was great, as confusing and scary as it had to be.
    - "The rebel always defeats the empire or there's no story" sounds like it will be the general theme of this mini.
    - Manchester almost gets killed exclusively because of how much of an arrogant idiot he is.
    - "Gentlemen. Ladies. Others"
    - I could do without the Kennedy mythologizing.
    - Leave it to Morrison to come up with the best possible take on the "Superman casually levitates while talking to people" trope. "I hope you're impressed"
    - That half-smile Superman has after Manchester accusses him of intentionally causing him agony and that he always had the makings of a sadist or a tyrant says it all, doesn't it?
    - Right after the Action Comics Annual made sure to emphasize how hellish the Phantom Zone was, Superman's insistence of its fairness as a means of punishment just adds to the whole vibe of this version of him.
    - "I hated you first! I can spot a trend a mile off!" Greatness, just greatness.
    - Ursa in the Phantom Zone. Editor asleep at the wheel, I guess, since they couldn't be bothered to change it to Faora.
    - Thought Beast, my kind of fanservice.
    - Some reveal about Kryptonite. I figure whatever it is, it's how this'll tie in with the main continuity.
    - Superman toasting with mineral water and indirectly making Manchester throw up like he couldn't hold his liquor is everything I didn't know I wanted from these two.
    You beat me to it

  2. #542
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    In terms of personal subtext think this was along the lines of GL - makes sense since it was written at the same of time - of Morrison reflecting on their time in comics and admitting that their attempts to change comics failed.
    Last edited by Hypo; 07-20-2021 at 11:10 AM.

  3. #543
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Of course Manchester Black thinks you're "finished as a human being" if you become disabled.

    What an absolute tool.
    It’s why I love him So many of the other Superman Rogues have big grandiose world conquering plans, or love to justify the evil they commit as being for the greater good. Manchester though? He’s just kind of a shit with the power to melt your brain. He’s such a fun foe for Supes, and him being Supes partner here is entertaining as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    The "lost in time" bit and maybe the King Arthur mention do seem like a revision to explain what this is against a dropped 5G plan. And given its just dialogue wouldn't require much to insert now given this has apparently been in the can for a long time. It's a throw away line that doesn't require any more explanation. This otherwise would have fit right into that timeline they just leaked.

    It's definitely a Morrison book. I don't worship at their altar like most here and but this was a decent first issue and even with all the continuity issues it's plastering over it was pretty good. I did especially enjoy the little dig at Kingdom Come:

    Attachment 111669
    Off topic but Yoda who is “your guy” if I might ask? Maybe I should make a thread asking this of everyone…
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  4. #544
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    You know Clark has a bit of a sadist streak when he performed laser spinal surgery on Black with barely any anesthesia, damn. The visuals on that looked really cool though.

    I liked seeing the odd bits of memorabilia that Clark had accumulated in his Fortress. I really want to see him have adventures through time and space like he did in the Silver Age.

  5. #545
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    You know Clark has a bit of a sadist streak when he performed laser spinal surgery on Black with barely any anesthesia, damn. The visuals on that looked really cool though.

    I liked seeing the odd bits of memorabilia that Clark had accumulated in his Fortress. I really want to see him have adventures through time and space like he did in the Silver Age.
    I mean given Clark and Blacks history I am not at all surprised.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  6. #546
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic...but who else wishes Clark would sport grey temples in the other modern books? Given how infinite Frontier and all of that has pretty much still made 5G reality just without explicitly stating everyone's ages, I'm okay with a touch of grey in his hair. He looks distinguished, and it's a nice short hand to the audience to say "this is the original Superman and he's been around the block more than a few times ".

    Or maybe Janin should be chained to his desk and be forced to draw Superman stories until the end of his natural life.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Slightly off topic...but who else wishes Clark would sport grey temples in the other modern books? Given how infinite Frontier and all of that has pretty much still made 5G reality just without explicitly stating everyone's ages, I'm okay with a touch of grey in his hair. He looks distinguished, and it's a nice short hand to the audience to say "this is the original Superman and he's been around the block more than a few times ".

    Or maybe Janin should be chained to his desk and be forced to draw Superman stories until the end of his natural life.
    I think that the grey temples will make it or break it continuity-wise for the whole miniseries.
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  8. #548
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Off topic but Yoda who is “your guy” if I might ask? Maybe I should make a thread asking this of everyone…
    Do you mean like my ideal Superman creator? I genuinely don't know at this point if I have one. I don't think there is any writer in particular that I don't have some issues with their various takes. Even with Morrison, I like their voice and ideas for Superman, but the way they handle the surrounding mythos leaves a lot to be desired for me. I enjoy those aspects of their Action run, but the editorial mandates mess it up for me because I lean more towards needing the whole mythos to click rather than just a good take on Clark alone to really like something. And even outside of the New 52's nonsense, they don't seem to have a good handle on Lois or that aspect of the mythos which is pretty central to me. I'm not a die hard marriage advocate, but the relationship there is pretty central to my enjoyment and understanding of the whole mythos.

    I guess maybe Kurt Busiek? Secret Identity and Camelot Falls are two of my favorites and probably land closest to what I'd really like to see done with Superman consistently.

  9. #549
    Fantastic Member oneveryfineday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Slightly off topic...but who else wishes Clark would sport grey temples in the other modern books? Given how infinite Frontier and all of that has pretty much still made 5G reality just without explicitly stating everyone's ages, I'm okay with a touch of grey in his hair. He looks distinguished, and it's a nice short hand to the audience to say "this is the original Superman and he's been around the block more than a few times ".
    I am 100% for this idea, and Clark looks great with some silver temples. Too bad PKJ said it won’t be carrying over in his run.

  10. #550
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Slightly off topic...but who else wishes Clark would sport grey temples in the other modern books? Given how infinite Frontier and all of that has pretty much still made 5G reality just without explicitly stating everyone's ages, I'm okay with a touch of grey in his hair. He looks distinguished, and it's a nice short hand to the audience to say "this is the original Superman and he's been around the block more than a few times ".

    Or maybe Janin should be chained to his desk and be forced to draw Superman stories until the end of his natural life.
    Yeah I personally like the grey temples, as someone who has read Earth-2 comics it gives me a bit of a nostalgic feeling looking at him. Plus I generally agree that if you want him to stand out from Jon more it certainly is a good way to go.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  11. #551
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    Slightly off topic...but who else wishes Clark would sport grey temples in the other modern books? Given how infinite Frontier and all of that has pretty much still made 5G reality just without explicitly stating everyone's ages, I'm okay with a touch of grey in his hair. He looks distinguished, and it's a nice short hand to the audience to say "this is the original Superman and he's been around the block more than a few times ".

    Or maybe Janin should be chained to his desk and be forced to draw Superman stories until the end of his natural life.
    I’m surprisingly warming up to the idea despite initially being afraid of that very thing occurring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Do you mean like my ideal Superman creator? I genuinely don't know at this point if I have one. I don't think there is any writer in particular that I don't have some issues with their various takes. Even with Morrison, I like their voice and ideas for Superman, but the way they handle the surrounding mythos leaves a lot to be desired for me. I enjoy those aspects of their Action run, but the editorial mandates mess it up for me because I lean more towards needing the whole mythos to click rather than just a good take on Clark alone to really like something. And even outside of the New 52's nonsense, they don't seem to have a good handle on Lois or that aspect of the mythos which is pretty central to me. I'm not a die hard marriage advocate, but the relationship there is pretty central to my enjoyment and understanding of the whole mythos.

    I guess maybe Kurt Busiek? Secret Identity and Camelot Falls are two of my favorites and probably land closest to what I'd really like to see done with Superman consistently.
    Yep that’s exactly what I meant, was curious who yours was, who’s the guy you think did it “best” if not “perfect”. Busiek is definitely top 3 for me as well.
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  12. #552
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    He looks good with the white, hell I liked Hal Jordan with them silver temples too, but in the end I don't want him portrayed as generally being older. I still prefer the aging very slowly thing so I'm not keen on whatever it is that is visibly aging him sticking around longterm.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  13. #553
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    He looks good with the white, hell I liked Hal Jordan with them silver temples too, but in the end I don't want him portrayed as generally being older. I still prefer the aging very slowly thing so I'm not keen on whatever it is that is visibly aging him sticking around longterm.
    I'm of the same opinion. Superman looks great with the way Janin is drawing the white temples in his hair. But I prefer a Superman who ages much, much slower than humans do. And the popularity of shows like Invincible demonstrate that this idea would be appealing to general audiences as well.

  14. #554
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    I liked this of course. Janin feels like a good fit with Morrison. There's some interesting riffing going on with the lost in time throwaway gag. It doesn't work as justification for current continuity but it plays perfectly fair with Morrison's classical "everything happened, the chronology IS the continuity" approach anyway and so Silver Age, Justice League, the "so-called" (but not really) PEAK all happened from 1960-69 and concurrently with Kennedy in the real world. Kennedy's "Camelot" lines up with King Arthur's Camelot and only in the DCU do the two things coexist so directly with Seven Soldiers sly references baked into the DNA of the situation. This is already a scenario Morrison has reconciled, as the DCU has variant Camelots in different timeframes; Golden Age Time Adventure Camelots, Shining Knight Camelot, Jack Kirby Camelot, Camelot 3000 Camelot and Morrison Sheedageddon Camelot. Trying not to think too hard on that one but it's an interesting way to have Superman try to connect with Manchester, who is many things, but real frickin' British is definitely one of them.

    Morrison never went hard on the Phantom Zone Sentient Elder God mini-series lore. We see Xa-Du here specifically drawing a straight line from Moz's Action run and that weird interaction with the Phantom Stranger and the actual "ecto" or science fiction explanations for "Ghosts" element of it; something more in line with what could exist between pages of a paper universe and the previous uses of Limbo and White Space and Bleed, with some pseudo-science 'ghost hunter' or perhaps more importantly - Photographer/Journalist - flair to give it an actual relevance not just to SPACE PRISON OF KRYPTON/ghosts of Superman's past but also his job as a news reporter whose best friend is an expert with cameras. Of course Xa-Du the Phantom King and the rest who are still around would find a trove of old Jor-El Ghost Drones and try to use them to breach the barrier and attack Superman.

    I think we're clearly meant to look at the title (Authority) and Superman swooping in and Manchester on the outs and see things through Manchester's cynical perspective and wonder ... but I think we all know deep down that it's Manchester's perspective. He's a sh** but he's not necessarily wrong; from a certain point of view, from a perspective, Superman does appear that way and even though the stories like The Elite and such are designed to show why Black is totally wrong about Superman (and this will continue that trend), he's our obvious Cynic. He doesn't understand Superman's hope and optimism and goodness and we're meant to question that as we see Superman use some tactics that he'd have been a lot more reticent of back in the halcyon days. The short sleeves really sell it. Superman is rolling up his sleeves and going to work, just like back home on the farm.

    I know we've only seen the barest taste but I feel like Ultra-Humanite is just the perfect thematic foil for this scenario.
    Last edited by K. Jones; 07-20-2021 at 10:19 PM.
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  15. #555
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Morrison just casually bombing in to remind that they're still the best modern Superman writer. Putting on a master class of dancing around 5G bullshit.

    Great time all around and while I usually don't care much for Janin's art, he really shined here. This was a good time and Clark decidedly has some bite back to him.

    Can't wait for the next issue, which is saying a lot because the premise still sounds awful in practice but works in execution given the tremendous talent of everyone involved.

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