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  1. #661
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venceremos View Post
    Meh, I just prefer Superman having cool super adventures and fighting the super bad guy of the week, along with slice-of-life bits with Lois and the cast in between, and the occasional A Very Special Episode. I find the whole "why hasn't superhero x actually changed the world with their powers/resources?" deconstructionist thing to be the laziest, navel gazing-iest, boring, pseudointellectual take and is downright a cliche at this point.

    Also Manchester is basically early 90s Lobo in this.
    Totally fair and luckily there’s a Superman ‘78 series coming by Venditti which is probably going to be exactly that. But for the main guy, DC seems committed to really shaking up his status quo and taking him in a different direction.
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  2. #662
    Astonishing Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    I enjoyed the issue! Superman and the Authority was something that mostly flew under the radar for me, until I saw the preview and read the interview with Morrison, and decided to check it out. The issue itself is light on action, but between it and the interview, I'm mostly excited by Morrison's approach to a subject that is discussed ad nauseum within and outside the fandom, and particularly on this forum - should superheroes be 'fixing' the world by tackling real-world problems? and what would happen if they did?

    The Superman in this story is meant to be a logical progression of both the Golden Age Superman (who Morrison reinvented in his New 52 run) and the Silver Age Superman. I guess the idea is that Superman started out as a champion of the oppressed, a man of action who wasn't afraid to get sh#t done. He evolved from that into being a more idealistic and inspirational figure representative of the Space Age and JFK's ''New Frontier''. But somewhere along the way, Superman (and superheroes in general) got so used to being inspirational symbols, that they somehow ended up not doing the work of making a real difference. So, now older and a bit bruised and battered, Superman is going back to the proactive approach of his earliest days, in order to fulfil the Space Age-era promise he made to JFK.

    Manchester Black is a fitting recruit because he's not just the antithesis of the classic Silver Age ''Boy Scout'' incarnation of Superman, but also because you can argue that he's a more extreme and kill-happy version of the Golden Age Superman. I think working with Black, Superman is trying to arrive at a new synthesis, so to speak, in terms of his approach and his worldview. He doesn't want to be the unfettered vigilante who can easily become a tyrant (like Black was), but he can't just be a navel-gazing symbol anymore either. Will he find that middle ground? And what is it? I guess this is what Morrison will be trying to answer over the next three issues.

    As far as the explanation for Superman in 1963 goes - yeah, it feels a bit like a cop-out on one level, especially since the full 5G timeline was recently leaked. They almost certainly intended Superman to actually be around during JFK's era, and then Morrison had to throw in the time-travel bit to have it make sense in 'current' continuity. But the time-travel stuff does jibe well with Superman also visiting Camelot and meeting Arthur, so who knows?

    I love the suit! Its already one of my all-time favorite Superman outfits. It feels like a cross between the now-iconic T-shirt and jeans look from the New 52, as well as stuff like the Cavill's costume or Hoechlin's current suit on S & L. The short sleeves and the lack of a cape do sell the idea that this Superman isn't a savior looking down from the skies, but someone who's ready to get down and dirty.

    Look forward to seeing how this plays out!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Finally got to the LCS yesterday.

    And yeah, this was everything I expected, hoped for, and wanted. If the New52 t-shirt Superman woke up one day to realize that he was 50, past his prime, and hadn't achieved his goals....it'd be this guy right here. And since t-shirt Superman is spiritually just the original with a fresh coat of paint and new sparkplugs, S&tA is really the original Superman examining his own modern failure and the false promise of the Silver Age peak. It is meta and self aware as f*ck. Old Man Kent. And I f*cking love it. Sorry to those who aren't feeling it, but I'm SO down for this.

    And that art, am I right? Janin and everyone just nail this. Talented bastards. I think Janin makes Black too pretty and handsome, but that's whatever. And I find I'm really getting attached to the costume. I feel like everything we need to know about this Superman, the costume tells us. Sleeves up, ready to finish what he started, the New52/OG cut. But in Silver Age materials and modern Age flourish, bearing the shield of another old Kent who was past his prime and trying to make up for lost time.

    Morrison's take on Black is arguably too meta for its own good. I feel like Morrison gets the gist of who Black is, but they write dialogue in exclamations and commentary, and that doesn't jive with the Guy Ritchie quips we're used to. Close enough for me, but I definitely see why it grates on other folk.

    People always get jittery when Clark decides to actually *do* something. When did we forget that Superman was supposed to work to change the world?
    He's quite literally rolling up his sleeves as it were and getting down and dirty, Black in tow, heh. Cool stuff indeed. The only thing I'm not totally on board with yet is the gloves though, but they could grow on me. Other than that, I really dig the look. Plays perfectly with the whole ethos of the story (one issue in, anyway).
    “Look, you can’t put the Superman #77s with the #200s. They haven’t even discovered Red Kryptonite yet. And you can’t put the #98s with the #300s, Lori Lemaris hasn’t even been introduced.” — Sam
    “Where the hell are you from? Krypton?” — Edgar Frog

  3. #663
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Frog Bros View Post
    He's quite literally rolling up his sleeves as it were and getting down and dirty, Black in tow, heh. Cool stuff indeed. The only thing I'm not totally on board with yet is the gloves though, but they could grow on me. Other than that, I really dig the look. Plays perfectly with the whole ethos of the story (one issue in, anyway).
    Think of them as his gardening gloves since he’s out to pull up some bad weeds

    Does make me wonder: Will this outfit be something he wears after this mini? We know it connects with the main continuity in issue 4 at some point, and perhaps Clark will wear both this outfit and his classic one. Sampere is on record as stating he loves the classic outfit and doesn’t want to change it though.
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  4. #664
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venceremos View Post
    Meh, I just prefer Superman having cool super adventures and fighting the super bad guy of the week, along with slice-of-life bits with Lois and the cast in between, and the occasional A Very Special Episode. I find the whole "why hasn't superhero x actually changed the world with their powers/resources?" deconstructionist thing to be the laziest, navel gazing-iest, boring, pseudointellectual take and is downright a cliche at this point.

    Also Manchester is basically early 90s Lobo in this.
    That's been my problem.If the guy was fun..He has cool sci-fi adventures?when?jon kent had them..clark was boring drama guy. it ain't deconstruction and is reconstruction.when the guy was literally punch social evils since day one.Superman wasn't flash Gordon even back then.

    Even the sci-fi adventures he goes through isn't fun nowadays.Because he has the personality of jesus or dad with his speeches."thou shall hope".Superman should shutup for a while,like i should myself and punch a giant lizard or robot or something..Just do some cool action.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 07-25-2021 at 08:04 PM.
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  5. #665
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post

    Morrison's take on Black is arguably too meta for its own good. I feel like Morrison gets the gist of who Black is, but they write dialogue in exclamations and commentary, and that doesn't jive with the Guy Ritchie quips we're used to. Close enough for me, but I definitely see why it grates on other folk.
    Yeah, I don't think Morrison's ever seen an opportunity to go meta where they haven't decided to crank it up to 11. I guess after you get the high of putting yourself into the DCU at the end of Animal Man, you keep chasing that same dragon over and over again.

    But, even when Morrison swings for the fences and misses the mark, I'm still glad there's someone out there able to do really ambitious stuff in mainstream superhero comics. I'm not sure there's anyone outside of Frank Miller or Neil Gaiman that DC allows this much leeway to take chances like WW: Earth One and The Green Lantern did.

    Superman & The Authority feels much more mainstream than either of those, but I'm glad Morrison's still trying to push things.

  6. #666
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Here’s something meta I just realized because someone else pointed it out: The last thing Superman does to Manchester Black in “What’s So Funny..?” is use his heat vision to cripple him. The first thing Superman does to Manchester in Superman & the Authority is use his heat vision to heal him. There’s that cyclical storytelling Morrison loves
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  7. #667
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    But, even when Morrison swings for the fences and misses the mark, I'm still glad there's someone out there able to do really ambitious stuff in mainstream superhero comics. I'm not sure there's anyone outside of Frank Miller or Neil Gaiman that DC allows this much leeway to take chances like WW: Earth One and The Green Lantern did.

    Superman & The Authority feels much more mainstream than either of those, but I'm glad Morrison's still trying to push things.
    Agreed. Outside of Superman, Morrison is *really* hit or miss with me (I think I like maybe half of their work) but even when they do something I don't care for (WW E-1) I still appreciate the effort, yknow? I'll take a spectacular failure that was carefully considered and painstakingly crafted over half-assed mediocre and forgettable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Here’s something meta I just realized because someone else pointed it out: The last thing Superman does to Manchester Black in “What’s So Funny..?” is use his heat vision to cripple him. The first thing Superman does to Manchester in Superman & the Authority is use his heat vision to heal him. There’s that cyclical storytelling Morrison loves
    Oh sh*t you're right. That's a nice throwback.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The 80s-the 2000s, if the roots for that way of viewing him didn't emerge in the 50s/60s People have been conditioned to view Superman a certain way at this point, and don't react well when we are reminded about the original ideas that went into him.
    I know, I know. And I'm not judging the people who aren't feeling this but I'll be damned if I understand why anyone would rather have more alien invaders and empty superheroics when *this* is on the stands right now.

    Fortunately we have Superman78 on the way, so the folks who want something more....traditional....will have it. I'll likely give that a peek too.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #668
    Astonishing Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Think of them as his gardening gloves since he’s out to pull up some bad weeds

    Does make me wonder: Will this outfit be something he wears after this mini? We know it connects with the main continuity in issue 4 at some point, and perhaps Clark will wear both this outfit and his classic one. Sampere is on record as stating he loves the classic outfit and doesn’t want to change it though.
    Heh, good point

    Some of the scrapped designs for the costume were pretty cool too, like a blend of this outfit and the classic one.
    “Look, you can’t put the Superman #77s with the #200s. They haven’t even discovered Red Kryptonite yet. And you can’t put the #98s with the #300s, Lori Lemaris hasn’t even been introduced.” — Sam
    “Where the hell are you from? Krypton?” — Edgar Frog

  9. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I know, I know. And I'm not judging the people who aren't feeling this but I'll be damned if I understand why anyone would rather have more alien invaders and empty superheroics when *this* is on the stands right now.
    I don't think anyone is actually opposed to bold new directions for Superman. In fact, in concept, this is a promising direction. The thing that I'm not feeling about it is the execution. Ambition should not come at the expense of coherent storytelling. And, well, the illogical continuity, the disjointed character development, the weird dialogue, the jokes that don't land...

    Again, in concept, this is something I could definitely get on board with, but as of now, it's not that well executed.

  10. #670
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Not to start the next big debate, but there's something I haven't seen mentioned that is incredibly important;

    The whole issue shows an older, weakening, relaxed Superman floating about his home while trying to entertain his guest.

    THE NEW "COSTUME" IS JUST SUPERMAN'S "NOT GOING OUT - NETFLIX AND ICE-CREAM DAY" ONESIE AND NOBODY CAN CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE!!!
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  11. #671
    Spectacular Member Micael's Avatar
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  12. #672
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Not to start the next big debate, but there's something I haven't seen mentioned that is incredibly important;

    The whole issue shows an older, weakening, relaxed Superman floating about his home while trying to entertain his guest.

    THE NEW "COSTUME" IS JUST SUPERMAN'S "NOT GOING OUT - NETFLIX AND ICE-CREAM DAY" ONESIE AND NOBODY CAN CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE!!!
    Why would we try to convince you otherwise? You speak truth and only truth!
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #673
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    Again, in concept, this is something I could definitely get on board with, but as of now, it's not that well executed.
    Eh, Morrison's not for everybody.

    I disagree with the criticism of continuity and incoherent narrative, but the dialogue is always.....something....with Morrison. Personally I find the way they handle Superman fitting and in-line with the mythical status of the IP but if you want realistic dialogue, you most definitely will not find it here.

    To each their own, hopefully Superman 78 will be more to your liking.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Eh, Morrison's not for everybody.

    I disagree with the criticism of continuity and incoherent narrative, but the dialogue is always.....something....with Morrison. Personally I find the way they handle Superman fitting and in-line with the mythical status of the IP but if you want realistic dialogue, you most definitely will not find it here.

    To each their own, hopefully Superman 78 will be more to your liking.
    I'm talking about how Superman was apparently best friends with JFK back in 1963...when Superman is only supposed to be about 40-50 years old canonically. And I know that there's precedent for it since Superman and JFK were friends back in the Silver Age. But...that was the Silver Age, when JFK was either still alive or had just recently died.

    This is something Morrison tends to do a lot: sprinkle in obscure Silver Age elements just to showcase that they know them. Sort of like a "Ooooo, look how much I know about DC lore" kind of thing. But, in the present context, it doesn't make logical sense that Clark would have known JFK. And, as an unintended consequence, it makes Superman and Lois's marriage a SEVERE case of cradle-robbing...
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 07-28-2021 at 09:02 AM.

  15. #675
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Goblin of Sector 2814 View Post
    I'm talking about how Superman was apparently best friends with JFK back in 1963...when Superman is only supposed to be about 40-50 years old canonically. And I know that there's precedent for it since Superman and JFK were friends back in the Silver Age. But...that was the Silver Age, when JFK was either still alive or had just recently died.

    This is something Morrison tends to do a lot: sprinkle in obscure Silver Age elements just to showcase that they know them. Sort of like a "Ooooo, look how much I know about DC lore" thing. But, in the present context, it doesn't make logical sense that Clark would have known JFK. And, as an unintended consequence, it makes Superman and Lois's marriage a SEVERE case of cradle-robbing...
    Apparently it's time travel. As was said in the book, Clark was lost in time and worked in secret but knew JFK. Then later he apparently gets transported to King Arthur's time, and that's where he gets the Round Table we see at the end.

    The original pitch for this book was for Lois to be roughly the same age as Clark, and for the both of them to have lived through the 60s till now. That's since been changed, and Clark wasn't born back then and neither was Lois, but Clark did spend some time their via time travel like I said.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

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