Kingdom Come - 25 Years Later

[Johnny Thunders!]

I bought the series as it was coming out. It was a prestige book back when that was a rare thing. In fact, just trade paperbacks were a new idea back then. Marvels was already huge and I felt like I missed something when Marvels was over. I remember the Kingdom Come poster. Everyone is descending from the sky and they are backlit by sunlight. I thought it was gorgeous, all the redesigns, the actors Alex Ross used for his characters was inspired. There was a ton of Easter Eggs hidden in the panels. When it came out, it felt like a commentary on comics post Watchmen. Magog looks like a Rob Leifeld design. I think the series should be and would be a classic for just the artwork but in the end, the story is one of the all time crisis of faith Superman stories. I think I ignored that about Superman for the longest time. Sometimes Superman represents me at my best, but he also represents me when I am at my worst. This Superman has lost his love, the goodwill of the people, the respect of his friends, and is confronted with the fact that he may be out of time. He might be out of touch? How do I handle being irrelevant? Hopefully I handle it as well or better than Superman. I had a long argument on the Superman page about which story was better All Star or Kingdom Come. I prefer All Star but I think Kingdom Come is just as much a Superman epic as any other. One nice thing about it, its' an Elseworlds, it's an Imaginary Story, no one does those better than Superman.

[Robotman]

I was thinking about Superman’s actions in this story. Abandoning the world because he didn’t like the current morality was pretty horrible and very un-Superman. Lois and his friends at the Planet had been killed and he was at a very low point, but I think this gets overlooked when people talk about horrible things that Superman has done. He didn’t kill anyone himself but he stepped aside and let the world turn to shit.

[Buried Alien]

It's still great...perhaps the most important DC story outside of COIE in terms of its long-term influence.

Moreover, without KINGDOM COME, this community of geeks (CBR) would never have come into existence. CBR as we know it was born as a KINGDOM COME discussion forum back in 1996.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Citizen Kane]

It's a decent storyline with some stellar art and coloring, but it just really misses the mark when it comes to the characterizations of pretty much all the main characters of the series. Shazam's change for the story is unforgivable (Really? Luthor henchman!?), but I teared up a smidge during the scene with the nuke. However, the rest of the story just didn't really move me. Was it captivating? Definitely. Was it a storyline that I liked? No, not really. The characterizations of the main "heroes" in Kingdom Come were all generally unlikable, which really had me disliking the story at its the end. I'd say it's worth reading once, but I don't think I'd read it again unless I really had nothing else to read.

[Gaius]

It's better than it's edge lord wannabe cousin, Injustice, I'll give it that. Probably because Waid and Ross are generally more talented than most of the creative people involved in that franchise.

[superduperman]

Best Superman costume ever.

It's certainly aged better than DKR. When I first read it back in 1999 I didn't like it. I felt like Superman was being led around by the nose (or other parts) by Wonder Woman. But as time has gone by I get it now. He retired, he was wrong, and he came out of retirement because he realized he was wrong. The idea of Superman admitting he was wrong was what bothered me. I found myself siding with Batman over Superman and I hate when DC does that. But I don't think that was Waid's point. All the heroes screwed up. And, to be fair, this was a few years before the whole "Batgod" thing. Batman was the fascist that Miller just implied he was. He literally watched over Gotham with security cameras. I kind of wish we got more with some of the other characters. Most of them were just walk on cameos. It created all these new characters but didn't tell us anything about them. IDK if Waid intended to have it look like E-2 with Power Woman and Alan Scott and giving Flash the helmet or it just happened to fall into place that way. Wouldn't surprise me if that was Ross's idea.

I think these big books work better if they are left alone and not exploited for the mainstream continuity. All of DKR's sequels sucked and ruined the mainstream relationship between Superman and Batman. It should have been allowed to be the stand alone story it was intended to be. Ditto KC. For a while in the late nineties DC was determined to say that it was the "official" future of the DCU. I do like the fact that it kept things kind of vague. The Superboy and Supergirl in the future can either be the Conner/Matrix ones or they can be Superman's decedents (which I think is the official E-22 versions). There is one thing in it that still bugs me to this day and that's when Magog is telling the story of how the Joker killed everyone at the Daily Planet. He says he killed a bunch of men and one woman. Which is ridiculous. This was the mid-nineties. Half the people killed would be women.

[Lightning Rider]

I was thinking about Superman’s actions in this story. Abandoning the world because he didn’t like the current morality was pretty horrible and very un-Superman. Lois and his friends at the Planet had been killed and he was at a very low point, but I think this gets overlooked when people talk about horrible things that Superman has done. He didn’t kill anyone himself but he stepped aside and let the world turn to shit.

I don't know, I think the man is entitled to feel somewhat useless if the entire world rejects him and he loses the love of his life. That's much more relateable and even somewhat noble, compared to going crazy and becoming a dictator a la Injustice. The only way he's able to become similarly relevant again is basically by force, which contributes to the moral dilemmas that unfold.

[newparisian]

Love Kingdom Come, Justice, and even Johns' epilogue in JSA.

Classics, all.

[newparisian]

There is one thing in it that still bugs me to this day and that's when Magog is telling the story of how the Joker killed everyone at the Daily Planet. He says he killed a bunch of men and one woman. Which is ridiculous. This was the mid-nineties. Half the people killed would be women.

Always thought the one woman was Lois. So even if other females were working at the Planet, she's the one the Joker killed.

[Will Evans]

Sometime I wonder if Alex Ross created Justice (2005) as a pushback to Kingdom Come. He has a YouTube channel were he talks a lot about superheroes and his belief in what they represent and should be, and surprise surprise it's the opposite of how they are in Kingdome Come.

I like both stories, I think they are both equality enjoyable, but I wish people would look at Justice on how to write characters in main continuity.

When is he ever going to give Firestorm a break?

[liwanag]

Sometime I wonder if Alex Ross created Justice (2005) as a pushback to Kingdom Come. He has a YouTube channel were he talks a lot about superheroes and his belief in what they represent and should be, and surprise surprise it's the opposite of how they are in Kingdome Come.

I like both stories, I think they are both equality enjoyable, but I wish people would look at Justice on how to write characters in main continuity.

as much as i like kingdom come, i am grateful that dc published justice. it was something that i needed to read i guess...

[Captain Nostalgia]

For me, the only reason why Kingdom Come is a memorable classic is Alex Ross.

When it came out I was blown away at how phenomenal the art was.

Not to take anything away from Mark Waid, he's a good writer, but without Alex Ross, it's just another comic book.

[DrNewGod]

It's still great...perhaps the most important DC story outside of COIE in terms of its long-term influence.

Moreover, without KINGDOM COME, this community of geeks (CBR) would never have come into existence. CBR as we know it was born as a KINGDOM COME discussion forum back in 1996.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I do miss Hatman, the Mighty Hank!, Ozbat, Joe Grendel and the whole crew.

[DrNewGod]

Best Superman costume ever.

It's certainly aged better than DKR. When I first read it back in 1999 I didn't like it. I felt like Superman was being led around by the nose (or other parts) by Wonder Woman. But as time has gone by I get it now. He retired, he was wrong, and he came out of retirement because he realized he was wrong. The idea of Superman admitting he was wrong was what bothered me. I found myself siding with Batman over Superman and I hate when DC does that. But I don't think that was Waid's point. All the heroes screwed up. And, to be fair, this was a few years before the whole "Batgod" thing. Batman was the fascist that Miller just implied he was. He literally watched over Gotham with security cameras. I kind of wish we got more with some of the other characters. Most of them were just walk on cameos. It created all these new characters but didn't tell us anything about them. IDK if Waid intended to have it look like E-2 with Power Woman and Alan Scott and giving Flash the helmet or it just happened to fall into place that way. Wouldn't surprise me if that was Ross's idea.

I think these big books work better if they are left alone and not exploited for the mainstream continuity. All of DKR's sequels sucked and ruined the mainstream relationship between Superman and Batman. It should have been allowed to be the stand alone story it was intended to be. Ditto KC. For a while in the late nineties DC was determined to say that it was the "official" future of the DCU. I do like the fact that it kept things kind of vague. The Superboy and Supergirl in the future can either be the Conner/Matrix ones or they can be Superman's decedents (which I think is the official E-22 versions). There is one thing in it that still bugs me to this day and that's when Magog is telling the story of how the Joker killed everyone at the Daily Planet. He says he killed a bunch of men and one woman. Which is ridiculous. This was the mid-nineties. Half the people killed would be women.

Some of us held the opinion that Ross didn't intend those characters who had distinct E1/E2 versions to be any specific character, but avatars of the general characteristics of the characters. Subsequent published works have said otherwise. I still can't help thinking of them that way.

[John Venus]

Its one of the best things DC ever published and probably the one Elseworlds that had a lasting impact on the main DCU. You can see it's influence in JLU during the Cadmus arc, the Gog story arc in JSA followed by that incredible epilogue, Infinite Crisis, anytime Wonder Woman brandishes a sword, the gold armor in WW84, Kevin Conroy's armor in CW's COIE cross over, Brandon Routh's KC Superman in that same cross over and it's more or less responsible for Damian Wayne: Batman and Talia having a son was first brought up in Son of the Demon, then KC showed a young adult Damian and when Grant Morrison's Batman run started, DC was in the process of making their universe more like the KC universe so we got Damian Wayne as a result. Cyclone/Maxine Hunkel was exported from the KC universe to the regular universe, Alan Scott's KC armor also appeared in regular DC continuity, 'Zatara' who was Zatanna and Constantine's child from KC was reimagined as Zatanna's cousin Zachary Zatara in the main DCU and Dick Grayson's 'Red Robin' costume was later adopted by Tim Drake pre-Nu52 and post Nu52. I'm sure I'm missing some more thing. Even The Dark Knight Rises referenced it with Bruce's 'so that's how that feels like' line (a few other adaptations have also done this) and Bruce needing specialized equipment to move around in, albeit not quite to the extent that KC Batman did. The Brave and the Bold cartoon also referenced KC particularly in the Trinity episode.

So yeah, without Kingdom Come, the DCU as we know it would be a very different place.