Excalibur #19 Spoilers and Review

[zvrk]

Betsy was never aware that Malice was in her new body until she was told so at the end of the issue. She went from shattering in XoS, to being in Queen Elizabeth's body, to jumping around the multiverse and actively fleeing from the other Captains, to being collected and delivered by Ilspeth, to refusing to reenter her new body and running away again. She has dealt with Malice before and was not at all intimidated by her in the past. The Betsy in #17 is incongruous with the story Howard was trying to sell in this issue.

At the end of issue #17 when she turns up at the Lighthouse she sends telepathic Help, which I took as her knowing Malice is her roomie, given the events of this issue.

[silvercover]

problem id say tini needs is to really make clear on what does betsy really want. does she like being captain britain? does she want to give it up? does she want to form her own identity? does she want to lead a team?

[Devaishwarya]

problem id say tini needs is to really make clear on what does betsy really want. does she like being captain britain? does she want to give it up? does she want to form her own identity? does she want to lead a team?

The fact that she absolutely refused to return the Sword of Might to Brian before XoS makes it very clear what she really wants.

[Outburstz]

Do you think that the 5 is allowed to just make Malice any body that she would want and give it to her?

[Jwyatt]

problem id say tini needs is to really make clear ....

The other problem is any sentence starting with those words will never come true.

[MetalPsyc]

Betsy is a skillful and experienced psychic. Fought multiple psychic threats including multiple encounters with Shadow King, jailed archangel persona, even fought evil entities inside her body (Evil Lady Mandarin-Exiles and a demon from Sisterhood).One encounter with Malice and she chickened out? Not to mentioned whining and crying about the one loss she had in XOS. She's beenn defeated and killed before. That's not very much like Betsy. That's not even like the Betsy in #17.

[Rnap22]

Do you think that the 5 is allowed to just make Malice any body that she would want and give it to her?

I don’t see why not. They make multiple copies of Xavier for proteus to inhabit. I would find it interesting on what body Malice would choose to be in. The body she had bonded with was Lorna, but even then she wanted to be free from her, but the bonding was so strong if I remember

[Knightmare]

The fact that she absolutely refused to return the Sword of Might to Brian before XoS makes it very clear what she really wants.

First is was the Amulet of Right, which she destroyed rather than give it back to it's owner.

Betsy's slow decent into madness, is the only interesting thing happening with her character at the moment. She's poor leader, Excalibur looks like a rudder less ship with her at the helm. They seem to spend most of their time looking after her, than doing anything of note. She's also a poor Captain Britain with a corp who act as if they've been about this life since day 0. Maybe when they were created, they were retroactive added to marvel history but from where I'm standing they've been a corp for 5 mins and acting like they own the place.

One interesting note, was that Betsy spent so long rejecting the Sword of Might, only to end up with the Starlight Sword anyway. What was the point of that? If she wanted to remain Captain Britain she could have done so with the Amulet of Right or the Sword of Might, instead she destroyed the amulet and picked another sword. She's all over the place and it's actually annoying and I place the blame for this squarely at Tini Howards feet. This redemption arc has gone on for too long and would be better covered in a solo title rather than a team book where her teammates and the reader has to suffer to get this idea over the line.

[warlockofgreed]

First is was the Amulet of Right, which she destroyed rather than give it back to it's owner.

Betsy's slow decent into madness, is the only interesting thing happening with her character at the moment. She's poor leader, Excalibur looks like a rudder less ship with her at the helm. They seem to spend most of their time looking after her, than doing anything of note. She's also a poor Captain Britain with a corp who act as if they've been about this life since day 0. Maybe when they were created, they were retroactive added to marvel history but from where I'm standing they've been a corp for 5 mins and acting like they own the place.

One interesting note, was that Betsy spent so long rejecting the Sword of Might, only to end up with the Starlight Sword anyway. What was the point of that? If she wanted to remain Captain Britain she could have done so with the Amulet of Right or the Sword of Might, instead she destroyed the amulet and picked another sword. She's all over the place and it's actually annoying and I place the blame for this squarely at Tini Howards feet. This redemption arc has gone on for too long and would be better covered in a solo title rather than a team book where her teammates and the reader has to suffer to get this idea over the line.

I do not think the Betsy Captain Britain Corps have not done anything wrong, they are trying to figure out and do their jobs while Saturnyne will not let them.

Saturnyne always intended to replace the Amulet of Right with the Starlight Sword as she said it was a "relic of the past" so choosing the sword was the only way to remain Captain Britain. While I did find it weird that Betsy would destroy the Amulet of Right as it came across a bit petty, Brian did not want to be Captain Britain again, and I think this is how the Betsy Captain Britain corps were created.

Betsy put all her will into destroying the amulet to prevent a new Captain Britain, and we learned from X of Swords that magic follows people with strong conviction, which suggests Betsy cast some kind of spell when destroying the amulet (she does talk about magic when destroying it). Saturnyne needed the Captain Britain Corps but wanted Brian, while it seems Betsy wants (any maybe in her mind needs) to be Captain Britain which clashed with Saturnyne's spell.

I theorise that if Betsy never destroyed the Amulet the way she did, Saturnyne would have gotten what she wanted with a Brian Captain Britain Corps. (this is all conjecture and could easily be wrong)

I agree with your points on Betsy not being the greatest leader but maybe that was the point and she we will better moving forward now she has dealt with some of her baggage? (playing devil's advocate here)

Her teammates have suffered in this book.

Does anyone else have a feeling that if Tini's run goes for as long as she wants it to, that in retrospect, it will all make sense (like a long-running manga series)? It does seem this book is built with the idea it will last for a while.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Do you think that the 5 is allowed to just make Malice any body that she would want and give it to her?

I don't see why not? Her possessing Betsy is a minor transgression at best, so unless Malice tries to actively attack Krakoa (which she might very well do) I don't see why she shouldn't benefit from being a mutant and therefore automatically a Krakoan citizen.

[Devaishwarya]

Does anyone else have a feeling that if Tini's run goes for as long as she wants it to, that in retrospect, it will all make sense (like a long-running manga series)? It does seem this book is built with the idea it will last for a while.

It's not that it ALL will or won't make sense in the long run...the main issue I feel is her single issues can be quite incohesive as certain important plot elements are left out or not explained. So even if it reads better as a whole there will still be noticeable "gaps" in the plotting.

[Knightmare]

I do not think the Betsy Captain Britain Corps have not done anything wrong, they are trying to figure out and do their jobs while Saturnyne will not let them.

Saturnyne always intended to replace the Amulet of Right with the Starlight Sword as she said it was a "relic of the past" so choosing the sword was the only way to remain Captain Britain. While I did find it weird that Betsy would destroy the Amulet of Right as it came across a bit petty, Brian did not want to be Captain Britain again, and I think this is how the Betsy Captain Britain corps were created.

Betsy put all her will into destroying the amulet to prevent a new Captain Britain, and we learned from X of Swords that magic follows people with strong conviction, which suggests Betsy cast some kind of spell when destroying the amulet (she does talk about magic when destroying it). Saturnyne needed the Captain Britain Corps but wanted Brian, while it seems Betsy wants (any maybe in her mind needs) to be Captain Britain which clashed with Saturnyne's spell.

I theorise that if Betsy never destroyed the Amulet the way she did, Saturnyne would have gotten what she wanted with a Brian Captain Britain Corps. (this is all conjecture and could easily be wrong)

I agree with your points on Betsy not being the greatest leader but maybe that was the point and she we will better moving forward now she has dealt with some of her baggage? (playing devil's advocate here)

Her teammates have suffered in this book.

Does anyone else have a feeling that if Tini's run goes for as long as she wants it to, that in retrospect, it will all make sense (like a long-running manga series)? It does seem this book is built with the idea it will last for a while.

It's not their job to take it upon themselves to search for a missing Captain Britain, although there is nothing stopping them from doing so. Their job, unless Tini has retcon'd it, is to guard the multiverse and their respective Britain's from threats(whatever they may be). That is the job Saturnyne has appointed them for. Not for them to tell the commander and chief how to do her job, not to dictate corp policy, simply to carry out Saturnyne's orders and get on with their responsibilities.

Yes Saturnyne intended to replace the AoR with the Starlight Sword for Brian, but at the time neither the characters in the story or you and I knew that. The ends don't justify the means. Sorry I must of missed the bit where Brian said he didn't want to be Captain Britain anymore, cause it seemed to me that he was trying very hard to get the AoR back from Betsy who wouldn't give it up.

The problem with the theory that destroying the AoR would prevent further Captain Britains from being created is that the Sword of Might still exist! Betsy used her psychic abilities to destroy the AoR and doesn't have a spell casting skill of her own.

I'm rooting for Betsy to get better in this title because so far it's been a bit of a trainwreck, however this is comics and we all know that authors rarely get enough time on a title as they'd like. So Tini really needs to step up her game. The thing I don't know is if Excalibur is a strategic title for Marvel. I.e. will they just replace staff on a failing title to make it better or just shelve the book for another decade.

Reading your post put a stranger theory into my head. Earlier in the Excalibur run we hear that Merlyn and Roma are still handing out AoR & SoM to Brian at least, which gets me thinking that maybe there is another Captain Britain corp out there!

[warlockofgreed]

It's not their job to take it upon themselves to search for a missing Captain Britain, although there is nothing stopping them from doing so. Their job, unless Tini has retcon'd it, is to guard the multiverse and their respective Britain's from threats(whatever they may be). That is the job Saturnyne has appointed them for. Not for them to tell the commander and chief how to do her job, not to dictate corp policy, simply to carry out Saturnyne's orders and get on with their responsibilities.

Yes Saturnyne intended to replace the AoR with the Starlight Sword for Brian, but at the time neither the characters in the story or you and I knew that. The ends don't justify the means. Sorry I must of missed the bit where Brian said he didn't want to be Captain Britain anymore, cause it seemed to me that he was trying very hard to get the AoR back from Betsy who wouldn't give it up.

The problem with the theory that destroying the AoR would prevent further Captain Britains from being created is that the Sword of Might still exist! Betsy used her psychic abilities to destroy the AoR and doesn't have a spell casting skill of her own.

I'm rooting for Betsy to get better in this title because so far it's been a bit of a trainwreck, however this is comics and we all know that authors rarely get enough time on a title as they'd like. So Tini really needs to step up her game. The thing I don't know is if Excalibur is a strategic title for Marvel. I.e. will they just replace staff on a failing title to make it better or just shelve the book for another decade.

Reading your post put a stranger theory into my head. Earlier in the Excalibur run we hear that Merlyn and Roma are still handing out AoR & SoM to Brian at least, which gets me thinking that maybe there is another Captain Britain corp out there!

But was what they said to Saturnyne inappropriate though? They wanted to convene the court in order to discuss Captain Britain affairs, which makes sense because they are effectively at the start of new age for the corps. And they have the spirit of the Betsy who paid the cost to save Otherworld, in the eyes of the corps, she should be sent home where she could be brought back. If the corps are expected to risk their lives for Otherworld and the multiverse, should the person in charge not also care for them?

You are not wrong about Betsy destroying the AoR, it could have prevented the birth of a new Captain Britain, but I would argue Saturnyne had every intention of forcing Brian into the role, even if he did not want it and also, there was a current Captain Britain, Betsy. The method for appointing a new Captain Britain would be a future problem, especially as they faced an immediate crisis. While what Betsy did may not be excusable, I understand why she did it.

It was never stated, but I assumed the XoS tie-in with the Braddocks implied the Braddocks had planned everything before Brian and Jamie turned up at the citadel.

When Betsy destroyed the AoR, I think it was more instinctive than it was on purpose. In times of difficulty, people are capable of things they were able to do previously. (I know a lot of this is assumptions, but as the book does not directly tell you a lot, I am not sure how else to talk about what happens in the book) Also, the sword of might does not relate to the role of Captain Britain so I do not think it would have been affected by the AoR

Agreed that Tini needs to step up this game. It can be so hard to read this comic because the ingredients for a good book are here and I want this book to work because it is a concept I have wanted explore dfor years. This book is the first real attempt and if it fails, Marvel are less likely to try this book again.

That…is a very good point. We still do not know why Roma and Merlin left the job and how Saturnyne got the job.

[Knightmare]

But was what they said to Saturnyne inappropriate though? They wanted to convene the court in order to discuss Captain Britain affairs, which makes sense because they are effectively at the start of new age for the corps. And they have the spirit of the Betsy who paid the cost to save Otherworld, in the eyes of the corps, she should be sent home where she could be brought back. If the corps are expected to risk their lives for Otherworld and the multiverse, should the person in charge not also care for them?

You are not wrong about Betsy destroying the AoR, it could have prevented the birth of a new Captain Britain, but I would argue Saturnyne had every intention of forcing Brian into the role, even if he did not want it and also, there was a current Captain Britain, Betsy. The method for appointing a new Captain Britain would be a future problem, especially as they faced an immediate crisis. While what Betsy did may not be excusable, I understand why she did it.

It was never stated, but I assumed the XoS tie-in with the Braddocks implied the Braddocks had planned everything before Brian and Jamie turned up at the citadel.

When Betsy destroyed the AoR, I think it was more instinctive than it was on purpose. In times of difficulty, people are capable of things they were able to do previously. (I know a lot of this is assumptions, but as the book does not directly tell you a lot, I am not sure how else to talk about what happens in the book) Also, the sword of might does not relate to the role of Captain Britain so I do not think it would have been affected by the AoR

Agreed that Tini needs to step up this game. It can be so hard to read this comic because the ingredients for a good book are here and I want this book to work because it is a concept I have wanted explore dfor years. This book is the first real attempt and if it fails, Marvel are less likely to try this book again.

That…is a very good point. We still do not know why Roma and Merlin left the job and how Saturnyne got the job.

Was what was said really inappropriate? Well the seems to depend on how much of a fan of Betsy you are. I'm looking at the organisation, the Captain Britain corp and their tone regardless of how they felt was insolent. An organisation that doesn't respect their leader is doomed to fail, because clearly the troops are starting to take matters into their own hands. Beside Saturnyne gave the reason as to why she made the decision she made. Betsy stood against her, why should she use the resources of the Captain Britain corp to solve a personal matter for the Corp members?

You're right Saturnyne was going to make Brian take the Starlight Sword, and kick start a new corp, but the AoR didn't need to be destroyed to make that happen, it was already going to happen.

The AoR and the SoM are both objects that create new Captain Britains. The difference between the two is simple, do you choose to solve your problem with reason over might(AoR) or might over reason(SoM). This is why Brian didn't want the sword, because is signifies a shift in the type of person he is.

The some many holes about the new status quo that I'm almost certain will never be addressed and will most certainly create issues down the road.

[Rnap22]

When was the last time the Amulet of Right was used? Brian hadn’t had that for quite some time as the powers were placed into him and then later his powers came from his confidence (since he was born of Otherworld background). So Brian having the AoR at the beginning of Excalibur and giving it to Betsy seems odd to me.