Excalibur #19 Spoilers and Review

[CGAR]

I mean if you're going to say that the Betsy Corps are being a certain way. You should also acknowledge what their leader is doing and has done to Betsy as well. Don't make her a victim when she clearly is not one.

[Psigal]

I mean if you're going to say that the Betsy Corps are being a certain way. You should also acknowledge what their leader is doing and has done to Betsy as well. Don't make her a victim when she clearly is not one.

Even I love Betsy, I would say it was her who done that to herself. Saturnyne didn't ask Betsy to become Captain Britain but it is more like she 'stole' it(The Starlight Sword).

And I see there is no problem for Saturnyne to ask Betsy returning the Amulet to Brian because he is the chosen one(and he still is). Betsy didn't do anything to earn the role but only her brother gave it to her.

It is a fact that Saturnyne solved a big threat to Otherworlds and Human world with her big plan even you may not like her way! I would be annoyed if I was her and consider this little 'purple witch' keep making mess to her plan. Actually, you can consider Betsy is somewhat selfish from this point of view(because she just want to be Captain Britain) when compare to Saturnyne who was trying to save the world.

But in the end, it is more like Tini's writing is killing Betsy's character from all directions and thats why Betsy's fans are heartbroken!(Crying)

[Knightmare]

When was the last time the Amulet of Right was used? Brian hadn’t had that for quite some time as the powers were placed into him and then later his powers came from his confidence (since he was born of Otherworld background). So Brian having the AoR at the beginning of Excalibur and giving it to Betsy seems odd to me.

Not since 1983 has the AoR been a thing, so to see it again in Excalibur 2021 was an unexpected recton by Tini. In hindsight it was brought back to give Betsy CB powers & legitimacy. At the time I just wondered why she had to do that, rather than just picking up a suit like Remender's run.

I mean if you're going to say that the Betsy Corps are being a certain way. You should also acknowledge what their leader is doing and has done to Betsy as well. Don't make her a victim when she clearly is not one.

Is Saturnyne a victim, hell no! But they are being a certain way, insolent, so I don't need to acknowledge what Saturnyne has done, what would be the point? Don't like your employer? Then leave your job, simple as that! Your employer is under no obligation to solve your personal problems. Especially if it concerns an employee that they never wanted or even like!

[WallStreeter]

Not since 1983 has the AoR been a thing, so to see it again in Excalibur 2021 was an unexpected recton by Tini. In hindsight it was brought back to give Betsy CB powers & legitimacy. At the time I just wondered why she had to do that, rather than just picking up a suit like Remender's run.



Is Saturnyne a victim, hell no! But they are being a certain way, insolent, so I don't need to acknowledge what Saturnyne has done, what would be the point? Don't like your employer? Then leave your job, simple as that! Your employer is under no obligation to solve your personal problems. Especially if it concerns an employee that they never wanted or even like!

Just because you work for someone does not mean you must always agree or obey. Plus employees have personal time and personal lives. Saturnyne refused to restore Betsy 616 so the Captain Britain corps took her to friends and family who they knew could restore her. And they did. So they ended up not needing Saturnyne to do this.

[Psigal]

Just because you work for someone does not mean you must always agree or obey. Plus employees have personal time and personal lives. Saturnyne refused to restore Betsy 616 so the Captain Britain corps took her to friends and family who they knew could restore her. And they did. So they ended up not needing Saturnyne to do this.

I would say Betsy 'forced' Saturnyne to 'employ' her instead of she is doing it willingly(she wants Brian instead) so it is a different thing. And she wants to 'fire' Betsy now but she just can't(poor Saturnyne), lol!

[WallStreeter]

I would say Betsy 'forced' Saturnyne to 'employ' her instead of she is doing it willingly(she wants Brian instead) so it is a different thing. And she wants to 'fire' Betsy now but she just can't(poor Saturnyne), lol!

Saturnyne cast the spell basing the Captain Britain corps on Betsy. Brian is a MARRIED man with a DAUGHTER. Saturnyne acted like a home wrecker, only Brian thankfully didn´t want her. If a man had tried some of the things Saturnyne tried with Brian he´d be accused of sexual harassment if not assault.

Brian decided to RETIRE as Captain Britain, focus on his marriage and family, including serve his BROTHER. Obviously this kind of family man simply cannot work with a woman who wants to destroy his marriage and family.

So Brian wanted Betsy to steal the Starlight sword. The right thing happened.

[Psigal]

Saturnyne cast the spell basing the Captain Britain corps on Betsy. Brian is a MARRIED man with a DAUGHTER. Saturnyne acted like a home wrecker, only Brian thankfully didn´t want her. If a man had tried some of the things Saturnyne tried with Brian he´d be accused of sexual harassment if not assault.

Brian decided to RETIRE as Captain Britain, focus on his marriage and family, including serve his BROTHER. Obviously this kind of family man simply cannot work with a woman who wants to destroy his marriage and family.

So Brian wanted Betsy to steal the Starlight sword. The right thing happened.

Surely, Brian can refuse the job but it doesn't mean Betsy can take it without Saturnyne's permission. In the end, Saturnyne is the 'employer' and she has the right to choose who to be Captain Britain.

Also, if you forced someone to 'hire' you like Betsy did, you need to take your own consequence because it is on you. Saturnyne takes no responsibility to restore her.

And 'The right thing happened'? Who decide this? Betsy got herself shattered into pieces! And the reform of the Captain Britain Corps is something Saturnyne already planned but not by Betsy. In Excalibur #19, Betsy actually thought there is no more Captain Britain and don't know anything about the Captain Britain Corps. She is nothing but only a whining teenager girl in the whole Excalibur storyline.

Tini, where is my mature and strong Betsy?

[WallStreeter]

Surely, Brian can refuse the job but it doesn't mean Betsy can take it without Saturnyne's permission. In the end, Saturnyne is the 'employer' and she has the right to choose who to be Captain Britain.

Also, if you forced someone to hire you like Betsy did, you need to take your own consequence because it is on you. Saturnyne takes no responsibility to restore her.

And 'The right thing happened'? Who decide this? Betsy got herself shattered into pieces! And the reform of the Captain Britain Corps is something Saturnyne already planned but not by Betsy. In Excalibur #19, Betsy actually thought there is no more Captain Britain and don't know anything about the Captain Britain Corps. She is nothing but only a whining teenager girl in the whole Excalibur storyline.

Tini, where is my mature and strong Betsy?

Being that the Captain Britain Corps helped the Krakoa crew restore Betsy, Saturnyne was not needed. Betsy and Jamie rescued Brian from being harassed by Saturnyne, who basically told Brian do me and you’ll get the job. Saturnyne got exactly what she deserved when Betsy took the sword. Saturnyne was trying to force herself on a married man, break up his marriage and ruin the life of his daughter. She is a horrible woman. She Cast a love spell that backfired and lead to the Captain Britain corps being based on Betsy.

Oh, Roma was the Guardian of the Omniverse until Saturnyne STOLE that job from her and somehow kicked her out of the citadel.

[warlockofgreed]

Some really good points have been made in favour of Betsy and Saturnyne.

For Saturnyne, she wanted Brian to be Captain Britain and enacted a grand plan to save Otherworld and restore the Captain Britain Corps. However, due to Betsy, the Captain Britain Corps was brought back but with Betsy instead of Brian. Saturnyne believes Betsy cannot be Captain Britain because the job requires the people of the UK to stand behind you. As Betsy is a mutant, they see her as person not to trust, and the people will give into their hate and turn on her. However, Saturnyne does have a personal agenda in wanting Brian to be Captain Britain, she has feelings for him on a personal level.

With regards to the Captain Britain Corps, while I understand from an organisation standpoint that you listen to your boss, what do you do if your boss does not listen to you? It is easy to say leave the job, but it is never that easy. The Braddock family have a personal attachment to this job, and you have just agreed to take on a job to save people lives while putting yours on the line. Maybe if they had been in the job for a year I would understand leaving but it has only been a week(?) And if you leave this job, will your replacement have the same ideals as yourself?

Also, the Captain Britain’s were all recruited by Saturnyne. It was her spell that summoned them all. She might not like it be she did offer them all the job.

For Betsy, she did not go through a test, she was simply given the role of Captain Britain because Brian gave it to her. Saturnyne chose Brian who chose Betsy, which I think is something we should consider. She was willing to return the role to Brian after the first arc but two things happened; 1)Brian did not want the role back, and 2)Betsy wanted to prove that just because she is a mutant, she was still British and could do the job, especially as Coven Akkaba wants her to leave the role because she is a mutant. If Betsy did cave in, then what kind of precedent does that send?

Overall, you have two flawed individuals who want to do their what is right but have let their feelings guide some of their choices.

Personally for me, I think Betsy’s had the better intentions than Saturnyne when she did what she did. (Saturnyne did say she believes in opposition which is why she lets the Priestesses of the Green do their own thing. The Betsy Captain Britain Corps provides the similar opposition, so for Saturnyne to deny them would be hypocritical)

[WallStreeter]

It's not their job to take it upon themselves to search for a missing Captain Britain, although there is nothing stopping them from doing so. Their job, unless Tini has retcon'd it, is to guard the multiverse and their respective Britain's from threats(whatever they may be). That is the job Saturnyne has appointed them for. Not for them to tell the commander and chief how to do her job, not to dictate corp policy, simply to carry out Saturnyne's orders and get on with their responsibilities.

Yes Saturnyne intended to replace the AoR with the Starlight Sword for Brian, but at the time neither the characters in the story or you and I knew that. The ends don't justify the means. Sorry I must of missed the bit where Brian said he didn't want to be Captain Britain anymore, cause it seemed to me that he was trying very hard to get the AoR back from Betsy who wouldn't give it up.

The problem with the theory that destroying the AoR would prevent further Captain Britains from being created is that the Sword of Might still exist! Betsy used her psychic abilities to destroy the AoR and doesn't have a spell casting skill of her own.

I'm rooting for Betsy to get better in this title because so far it's been a bit of a trainwreck, however this is comics and we all know that authors rarely get enough time on a title as they'd like. So Tini really needs to step up her game. The thing I don't know is if Excalibur is a strategic title for Marvel. I.e. will they just replace staff on a failing title to make it better or just shelve the book for another decade.

Reading your post put a stranger theory into my head. Earlier in the Excalibur run we hear that Merlyn and Roma are still handing out AoR & SoM to Brian at least, which gets me thinking that maybe there is another Captain Britain corp out there!

Absolutely wrong. Brian Braddock as Captain Britain did plenty of things that might not have been endorsed by Merlin or Roma. The Captain Britain corps do not need permission to do every heroic act that they do or every act they do period. Captain Britains are not slaves to whoever occupies the citadel.

Heroes do the right thing even IF it puts them as odd with their employers. Peter Parker was Spider Man, though his boss Jonah J hated Spder Man.

[Knightmare]

Just because you work for someone does not mean you must always agree or obey. Plus employees have personal time and personal lives. Saturnyne refused to restore Betsy 616 so the Captain Britain corps took her to friends and family who they knew could restore her. And they did. So they ended up not needing Saturnyne to do this.

No you don't have always agree, but you do have to obey as far as the job is concerned. As I said before if they want to take it on the their own back to bring back 616 Betsy, that's fine. But getting Saturnyne to do it, when she has absolutely no reason to is just dumb. Also the tone with which they used to ask for this favour from their boss should not be tolerated in my opinion. Did we all forget how powerful Saturnyne has become now? You just run up on her talking hella reckless!

Absolutely wrong. Brian Braddock as Captain Britain did plenty of things that might not have been endorsed by Merlin or Roma. The Captain Britain corps do not need permission to do every heroic act that they do or every act they do period. Captain Britains are not slaves to whoever occupies the citadel.

Heroes do the right thing even IF it puts them as odd with their employers. Peter Parker was Spider Man, though his boss Jonah J hated Spder Man.

Yeah sure Brian did do things on his own back, but never with malice against Merlyn and Roma. Never did he once spit in Merlyn and Roma's face, then have the rest of the corp on the verge of mutiny trying to progress a personal agenda 5 minutes into the job. The new corp lack professionalism!

Are they slaves? No, but neither are they entitled to be throwing their weight around Otherworld. Don't like it? Leave!

Saturnyne cast the spell basing the Captain Britain corps on Betsy. Brian is a MARRIED man with a DAUGHTER. Saturnyne acted like a home wrecker, only Brian thankfully didn´t want her. If a man had tried some of the things Saturnyne tried with Brian he´d be accused of sexual harassment if not assault.

Brian decided to RETIRE as Captain Britain, focus on his marriage and family, including serve his BROTHER. Obviously this kind of family man simply cannot work with a woman who wants to destroy his marriage and family.

So Brian wanted Betsy to steal the Starlight sword. The right thing happened.

Welcome to free will! Saturnyne wants to wreck a home? Sure let her shoot her shot, as long as she doesn't seduce Brian what harm has been done? Life isn't fair for men or women and guess what? It isn't mean to be.

Brian didn't decide to retire as Captain Britain and never said that, to focus on his marriage or otherwise. Imagine being Captain Britain, Headmaster of the Braddock Academy, member of MI13, a husband and a father for over a decade, but as soon as your sister shows up it's suddenly too much for you. Yeah OK? Retiring from a job mean giving it all up, not taking up the same job in another location down the road. Brian and Saturnyne have had this dynamic since the 90's it's nothing new, but now he can't hack it? Yeah right!

Being that the Captain Britain Corps helped the Krakoa crew restore Betsy, Saturnyne was not needed. Betsy and Jamie rescued Brian from being harassed by Saturnyne, who basically told Brian do me and you’ll get the job. Saturnyne got exactly what she deserved when Betsy took the sword. Saturnyne was trying to force herself on a married man, break up his marriage and ruin the life of his daughter. She is a horrible woman. She Cast a love spell that backfired and lead to the Captain Britain corps being based on Betsy.

Oh, Roma was the Guardian of the Omniverse until Saturnyne STOLE that job from her and somehow kicked her out of the citadel.

Love spell? huh?

Some really good points have been made in favour of Betsy and Saturnyne.

For Saturnyne, she wanted Brian to be Captain Britain and enacted a grand plan to save Otherworld and restore the Captain Britain Corps. However, due to Betsy, the Captain Britain Corps was brought back but with Betsy instead of Brian. Saturnyne believes Betsy cannot be Captain Britain because the job requires the people of the UK to stand behind you. As Betsy is a mutant, they see her as person not to trust, and the people will give into their hate and turn on her. However, Saturnyne does have a personal agenda in wanting Brian to be Captain Britain, she has feelings for him on a personal level.

With regards to the Captain Britain Corps, while I understand from an organisation standpoint that you listen to your boss, what do you do if your boss does not listen to you? It is easy to say leave the job, but it is never that easy. The Braddock family have a personal attachment to this job, and you have just agreed to take on a job to save people lives while putting yours on the line. Maybe if they had been in the job for a year I would understand leaving but it has only been a week(?) And if you leave this job, will your replacement have the same ideals as yourself?

Also, the Captain Britain’s were all recruited by Saturnyne. It was her spell that summoned them all. She might not like it be she did offer them all the job.

For Betsy, she did not go through a test, she was simply given the role of Captain Britain because Brian gave it to her. Saturnyne chose Brian who chose Betsy, which I think is something we should consider. She was willing to return the role to Brian after the first arc but two things happened; 1)Brian did not want the role back, and 2)Betsy wanted to prove that just because she is a mutant, she was still British and could do the job, especially as Coven Akkaba wants her to leave the role because she is a mutant. If Betsy did cave in, then what kind of precedent does that send?

Overall, you have two flawed individuals who want to do their what is right but have let their feelings guide some of their choices.

Personally for me, I think Betsy’s had the better intentions than Saturnyne when she did what she did. (Saturnyne did say she believes in opposition which is why she lets the Priestesses of the Green do their own thing. The Betsy Captain Britain Corps provides the similar opposition, so for Saturnyne to deny them would be hypocritical)

If your boss doesn't listen to you, you have quite a few options. For instances, you can let them make their mistake and understand the wisdom of the course of action you proposed. You can also take matters into your own hands, as long as it doesn't affect the organisation, there should be no problem. You can also just leave and do your own thing. What you can't do however is go up to your boss, show a level of disrespect that borders on egomania, try and get your own way.

Saturnyne that this is not the corp she wanted, but the one she has, and is also in no real position to wash her hands of the whole thing and start again. Which is probably why the relationship between the her and the corp is so formal, combative and strict. I guess that's the way it will remain until either she can get the corp she wants or Betsy somehow proves that her appointment can work.

There is one thing I want to know about Brian handing over the AoR to Betsy. That wasn't her take my job and never give it back! It was a escape Morgan Le Fey/Otherworld and save yourself.
Everyone who has held a position of power over Otherworld(Merlyn/Roma/Saturnyne) has chosen Brian over his siblings, for very obvious reasons. Neither Betsy or Jamie in most realities can hold down a stable job

I gonna say this right now. Tini's biggest retcon f-up so far, is Merlyn and Roma appearing to Brian to offer him the choice again. He already had the AoR it made no sense and just made things more convoluted. That being said Brian clearly still wanted the position of Captain Britain, otherwise he would have chosen the SoM. Betsy has always been British, even when she was the ninja chick. The reason she wanted to be Captain Britain is because she felt she deserved it more than Brian, for reasons!?! We all have to face it, Betsy will always have split loyalties, in a job that can't afford that.

I want to make it clear, I don't really have a problem with Betsy being Captain Britain but they this has all be handled is so bad that I have to say something. Ideally if this was all to go down, I'd like Hickman esc higher Avalon situation with the whole family working together.

[Rnap22]

The other Betsy never signed up for this really. They became CB because the spell was cast by Saturnyne for the true CB and it backfired on her. She thought it would be Brian but it was Betsy.

My question still stands: how long have all the Betsy’s been CB? This would have to be new for all of them. And what if they didn’t want to be? They just got decided they would be against their collective will? Things like that make a Corp of alternates of the same person kind of boring and their destinies are chosen for them. So I guess all the other Brians just up and quit/retired/etc.

[Knightmare]

The other Betsy never signed up for this really. They became CB because the spell was cast by Saturnyne for the true CB and it backfired on her. She thought it would be Brian but it was Betsy.

My question still stands: how long have all the Betsy’s been CB? This would have to be new for all of them. And what if they didn’t want to be? They just got decided they would be against their collective will? Things like that make a Corp of alternates of the same person kind of boring and their destinies are chosen for them. So I guess all the other Brians just up and quit/retired/etc.

Depends how you want to cut it. Technically post Hickman's Time Runs Out event, most if not all of the members of the previous Captain Britain Corp are dead, wiped out by the Mapmakers during the whole incursion fiasco. Brian 616 should be the only one left, although that's never been confirmed. When Reed and Franklin rebuilt everything, the various corp members should have come back as well. So you have a point about all the other Brians out there. It's retcon city in Excalibur, I doubt we'll get an answer to any of our questions.

[CGAR]

I want to make it clear, I don't really have a problem with Betsy being Captain Britain but they this has all be handled is so bad that I have to say something. Ideally if this was all to go down, I'd like Hickman esc higher Avalon situation with the whole family working together.

I loved this Secret Wars interpretation as well. I wish Hickman was interested in Betsy because I definitely would like to see him write the Braddock siblings together.

[Sutekh]

Do you think that the 5 is allowed to just make Malice any body that she would want and give it to her?

Makes sense that they could, and should. As already pointed out, that's what they do for Proteus, and kinda what they did for Amal Farouk/Shadow King, who was a discorporate psychic entity, last I heard, but now has a meat body again (mysteriously already older and overweight, which would not have been my first choice to get resurrected into, if I could have chosen younger and svelte-r, so that I could enjoy the process of getting old and fat all over again over the next couple decades...).

Rakkus, one of the Acolytes whose 'body' inhabits others like a virus and drives them from within, could also benefit from some 'empty' bodies to ride around in, rather than have to possess other people.

On the other hand, this is part and parcel of their mutation, and perhaps they have some sort of psychological or psychic need to inhabit other people's bodies, in which case they could end up having certain specific people *volunteer* to let them ride around in their bodies, whether it be someone far nicer than myself, or someone with spare bodies they don't care about (Madrox, Timeshadow, Flashback and his kids, the Munroe twins, etc.), or someone with such a strong self-control that Malice would effectively be more of a ride-sharing passenger in their Uber, getting to experience what they are experiencing, but firmly in the back-seat, never a hand on the wheel. (Sage has generally been treated as this sort of person, in iron control of her own mind, although she's a poor choice since she has access to all sorts of data on a daily basis that she wouldn't want Malice seeing through her eyes, but there has to be some other mutant(s) on the island with similar mental self-control, who Malice could 'ride around in' but not actually 'seize the wheel'.)