Excalibur #19 Spoilers and Review

[WallStreeter]

No you don't have always agree, but you do have to obey as far as the job is concerned. As I said before if they want to take it on the their own back to bring back 616 Betsy, that's fine. But getting Saturnyne to do it, when she has absolutely no reason to is just dumb. Also the tone with which they used to ask for this favour from their boss should not be tolerated in my opinion. Did we all forget how powerful Saturnyne has become now? You just run up on her talking hella reckless!



Yeah sure Brian did do things on his own back, but never with malice against Merlyn and Roma. Never did he once spit in Merlyn and Roma's face, then have the rest of the corp on the verge of mutiny trying to progress a personal agenda 5 minutes into the job. The new corp lack professionalism!

Are they slaves? No, but neither are they entitled to be throwing their weight around Otherworld. Don't like it? Leave!



Welcome to free will! Saturnyne wants to wreck a home? Sure let her shoot her shot, as long as she doesn't seduce Brian what harm has been done? Life isn't fair for men or women and guess what? It isn't mean to be.

Brian didn't decide to retire as Captain Britain and never said that, to focus on his marriage or otherwise. Imagine being Captain Britain, Headmaster of the Braddock Academy, member of MI13, a husband and a father for over a decade, but as soon as your sister shows up it's suddenly too much for you. Yeah OK? Retiring from a job mean giving it all up, not taking up the same job in another location down the road. Brian and Saturnyne have had this dynamic since the 90's it's nothing new, but now he can't hack it? Yeah right!



Love spell? huh?



If your boss doesn't listen to you, you have quite a few options. For instances, you can let them make their mistake and understand the wisdom of the course of action you proposed. You can also take matters into your own hands, as long as it doesn't affect the organisation, there should be no problem. You can also just leave and do your own thing. What you can't do however is go up to your boss, show a level of disrespect that borders on egomania, try and get your own way.

Saturnyne that this is not the corp she wanted, but the one she has, and is also in no real position to wash her hands of the whole thing and start again. Which is probably why the relationship between the her and the corp is so formal, combative and strict. I guess that's the way it will remain until either she can get the corp she wants or Betsy somehow proves that her appointment can work.

There is one thing I want to know about Brian handing over the AoR to Betsy. That wasn't her take my job and never give it back! It was a escape Morgan Le Fey/Otherworld and save yourself.
Everyone who has held a position of power over Otherworld(Merlyn/Roma/Saturnyne) has chosen Brian over his siblings, for very obvious reasons. Neither Betsy or Jamie in most realities can hold down a stable job

I gonna say this right now. Tini's biggest retcon f-up so far, is Merlyn and Roma appearing to Brian to offer him the choice again. He already had the AoR it made no sense and just made things more convoluted. That being said Brian clearly still wanted the position of Captain Britain, otherwise he would have chosen the SoM. Betsy has always been British, even when she was the ninja chick. The reason she wanted to be Captain Britain is because she felt she deserved it more than Brian, for reasons!?! We all have to face it, Betsy will always have split loyalties, in a job that can't afford that.

I want to make it clear, I don't really have a problem with Betsy being Captain Britain but they this has all be handled is so bad that I have to say something. Ideally if this was all to go down, I'd like Hickman esc higher Avalon situation with the whole family working together.

So if a boss tells someone to get down their knees, do you expect them to either just do it or walk of the job? I’m not being crude moderators. We not too long ago have had a bunch of CEOs get fired due sexual assault and harassment.

Just because a so called boss wants something does not always make it legal or right. On a real job if an employer tells an employee to do certain things that should not be done the employee in certain situations could end up in jail, be sued, be killed or worse.

As for Saturnyne, you ignore the fact she kicked Roma and Merlín out of the Starlight citadel. She usurped them.

[WallStreeter]

CEOs have been fired by boards of directors for sleeping with or trying to sleep employees. It’s considered the height of unprofessionalism.

[Knightmare]

So if a boss tells someone to get down their knees, do you expect them to either just do it or walk of the job? I’m not being crude moderators. We not too long ago have had a bunch of CEOs get fired due sexual assault and harassment.

Just because a so called boss wants something does not always make it legal or right. On a real job if an employer tells an employee to do certain things that should not be done the employee in certain situations could end up in jail, be sued, be killed or worse.

As for Saturnyne, you ignore the fact she kicked Roma and Merlín out of the Starlight citadel. She usurped them.

Keep in mind that I'm just using the employer/employee or commander & chief/soldier analogy to get my point across and that taking the analogy too far will start to break down. For instance in Otherworld do I think that as a member of the CB corp you do as your told or should leave? Yes I do! It's a military organisation, when Saturnyne says jump! Your response should be how high. It's not a democracy and if you can't handle that then leave. No one is stopping from being a superhero elsewhere, but the resources provided to you by the organisation are now cut off. The Captain Britain Corp is not a fortune 500 company, there is not HR or external body for you to flie your grievances to.

As far as Merlyn and Roma are concerned, we don't know what happened between them and Saturnyne and I doubt we'll ever find out. Just another retcon.

CEOs have been fired by boards of directors for sleeping with or trying to sleep employees. It’s considered the height of unprofessionalism.

Yes it is the height of unprofessional-ism, but in the situation we're talking about all the power lies with Saturnyne. She has the ability to make or break your CB career and no one can stop her. So what do you do?

[danielsan52]

So what do you do?

Make Jessica Drew the new CB!

[Thievery]

I'm a bit late responding to the issue, but I thought that issue 19 was fine.

It was interesting to see the main 616 Psylocke's attitude towards the Kwannon/Betsy body swap compared to the alternate reality Kwannon that Betsy encountered in issue #17.
We got to see how each character views the body swap. Kwannon wasn't bothered but Betsy seemed as she was. Encountering the alternate reality Kwannon probably made Betsy feel even more guilty.

I took Betsy's fear and trauma in this issue to come from her encounter with the alternate reality Kwannon from issue 17. That Kwannon forcibly made Betsy to leave her reality when she found out that Betsy had taken control of her body in 616. It made Betsy's feeling of guilt increase to the point that she may not have wanted to return.

Just my interpretation over the last several issues.

[loke13]

It still amazes me that after 19 issues the characters who got the most attention / development were apocalypse, Rictor and psylocke

[WallStreeter]

Keep in mind that I'm just using the employer/employee or commander & chief/soldier analogy to get my point across and that taking the analogy too far will start to break down. For instance in Otherworld do I think that as a member of the CB corp you do as your told or should leave? Yes I do! It's a military organisation, when Saturnyne says jump! Your response should be how high. It's not a democracy and if you can't handle that then leave. No one is stopping from being a superhero elsewhere, but the resources provided to you by the organisation are now cut off. The Captain Britain Corp is not a fortune 500 company, there is not HR or external body for you to flie your grievances to.

As far as Merlyn and Roma are concerned, we don't know what happened between them and Saturnyne and I doubt we'll ever find out. Just another retcon.



Yes it is the height of unprofessional-ism, but in the situation we're talking about all the power lies with Saturnyne. She has the ability to make or break your CB career and no one can stop her. So what do you do?

Well you don’t write the books so does what you think in that regard matter? Of course not. Mind you I’m not in control of the books either. It’s okay for us to all have our personal preferences, but remember Otherworld is a fictional, magical place wheel people take power. Saturnyne took power from Merlín and Roma and yes, Betsy took the Starlight sword.

In that sense Betsy is an ambitious person who fought her way to her position, just like Saturnyne. Tini
Howard compares the two in a podcast.

As this is fiction and drama sells, I don’t think employee of the year/lapdog sells, especially when you’re dealing with
the superpowered.

As Elspeth Braddock said, “We are sworn to her, not controlled by her.” The others would not have the Starlight Sword had not Betsy 616 taken it.

Apocalypse should be proud. Survival of the fittest.

[WallStreeter]

Saturnyne is powerful, but not all powerful. She screwed up the spell, and apparently could not take the Starlight sword out of the possession of the spirit of 616 Betsy. I guess when you steal the citadel from its original owners, you just aren’t necessarily as in charge as you’d like to believe.

We should also keep in mind the mutants took down Morgan Le Fay. Not Saturnyne.

Saturnyne did not free Brian from Morgan Le Fay’s control. It was Apocalypse who defeated Annihilation, not Saturnyne. Saturnyne was hiding in the tower at that point. Saturnyne is powerful and smart but there is nothing to suggest she is all powerful.

Saturnyne’s rise to power is Otherworld was helped by Betsy and her counterparts, as well as mutants who defeated Saturnyne’s greatest enemies.

[Rang10]

It still amazes me that after 19 issues the characters who got the most attention / development were apocalypse, Rictor and psylocke

The one that took development was Apocalypse. Rictor is a annoying guy that learned nothing

[anyajenkins]

Maybe Roma and merlyn gave saturyne the citadel to save her life and then she just decided to keep it. And Roma and merlyn are now just happy, retired and running their own countries, so want her to have it...

[loke13]

The one that took development was Apocalypse. Rictor is a annoying guy that learned nothing

Eh he still gets more spotlight than most of the cast lol

[Knightmare]

Make Jessica Drew the new CB!

Sure the more the merrier I say!

Well you don’t write the books so does what you think in that regard matter? Of course not. Mind you I’m not in control of the books either. It’s okay for us to all have our personal preferences, but remember Otherworld is a fictional, magical place wheel people take power. Saturnyne took power from Merlín and Roma and yes, Betsy took the Starlight sword.

In that sense Betsy is an ambitious person who fought her way to her position, just like Saturnyne. Tini
Howard compares the two in a podcast.

As this is fiction and drama sells, I don’t think employee of the year/lapdog sells, especially when you’re dealing with
the superpowered.

As Elspeth Braddock said, “We are sworn to her, not controlled by her.” The others would not have the Starlight Sword had not Betsy 616 taken it.

Apocalypse should be proud. Survival of the fittest.

Betsy fought her way to her position? When did that happen? I thought she continually lucked into positions that weren't hers?

Not once did I make the case that the individuals of the CB corp were controller by Saturnyne. I was just making the case that they have no right to command Saturnyne who is their boss to do anything.

Yeah it's fictional place, but based on our reality. That's what allows us to relate to these stories that Marvel creates.

Saturnyne is powerful, but not all powerful. She screwed up the spell, and apparently could not take the Starlight sword out of the possession of the spirit of 616 Betsy. I guess when you steal the citadel from its original owners, you just aren’t necessarily as in charge as you’d like to believe.

We should also keep in mind the mutants took down Morgan Le Fay. Not Saturnyne.

Saturnyne did not free Brian from Morgan Le Fay’s control. It was Apocalypse who defeated Annihilation, not Saturnyne. Saturnyne was hiding in the tower at that point. Saturnyne is powerful and smart but there is nothing to suggest she is all powerful.

Saturnyne’s rise to power is Otherworld was helped by Betsy and her counterparts, as well as mutants who defeated Saturnyne’s greatest enemies.

Saturnyne didn't screw up her spell. The spell worked fine, Betsy was the one who messed up the outcome of that spell.

Why would Saturnyne care about who rules Avalon, why would she need to take down Morgan Le Fey?

Where has this all powerful narrative come from? I never said she was, but she has displayed abilities beyond anyone on Krakoa. So as far as mutants are concerned she might as well be all powerful.

Saturnyne already had the power in Otherworld, Betsy was just another pawn in her game.

[CGAR]

I think Brian saying something sooner would have helped the situation.

He did give her the amulet to escape.

So he also should have made it more clear that he was going the retirement route.

Instead we did get the brat version of Betsy that didn't want to give it back because she's always wanted to be Captain Britain.

But I disagree with some saying that these 19 issues shows her going through an arc where she deserves it and earned it.

[WallStreeter]

Sure the more the merrier I say!



Betsy fought her way to her position? When did that happen? I thought she continually lucked into positions that weren't hers?

Not once did I make the case that the individuals of the CB corp were controller by Saturnyne. I was just making the case that they have no right to command Saturnyne who is their boss to do anything.

Yeah it's fictional place, but based on our reality. That's what allows us to relate to these stories that Marvel creates.



Saturnyne didn't screw up her spell. The spell worked fine, Betsy was the one who messed up the outcome of that spell.

Why would Saturnyne care about who rules Avalon, why would she need to take down Morgan Le Fey?

Where has this all powerful narrative come from? I never said she was, but she has displayed abilities beyond anyone on Krakoa. So as far as mutants are concerned she might as well be all powerful.

Saturnyne already had the power in Otherworld, Betsy was just another pawn in her game.

Saturnyne’s forces were at war with those of Morgan Le Fays. Le Fay was clearly a problem for her.

Yes, Saturnyne screwed up the spell. The spell wasn’t just to restore the Captain Britain corp, it was supposed to bring Brian 616. It was an epic fail on the behalf of Saturnyne. Truly epic. Now the Captain Britain Corp is based on Betsy and it was Saturnyne spell who made it so.

[WallStreeter]

I think Brian saying something sooner would have helped the situation.

He did give her the amulet to escape.

So he also should have made it more clear that he was going the retirement route.

Instead we did get the brat version of Betsy that didn't want to give it back because she's always wanted to be Captain Britain.

But I disagree with some saying that these 19 issues shows her going through an arc where she deserves it and earned it.

I think he wasn’t 100 percent sure until he became Captain Avalon. They he was completely devoted to the service as his brother King Jamie of Avalon.