Scarlet Witch/ Wanda Maximoff Discussion (Specifically about dislike)

[GenericUsername]

Personally, WV made me enjoy the character of Wanda a lot more because one of the biggest problems I have with her in the comics is a lack of accountability for her actions in HoM/Decimation.

I know Wanda went through a terrible tragedy, and for that I understand why she did the HoM but, I do not think she realises the impact her actions had.

For example, William Stryker, a religious zealot saw Wanda's actions as an act of God so went on a crusade, killing innocent children at the Xavier school. Even if resurrections can now take place, the remaining students at the time had to live with seeing there friends die due to a hate crime. They will never forget what happened because of Wanda.

The repercussions of Wanda's actions were so deep that it almost destroyed an entire species, and even those who survived went through changes you cannot come back from. Then, when Wanda appeared in AVX, she spoke about not being understood by her own species to Hope, but it sounded like a lack of self-awareness on the consequences of her actions. It feels like she wants to brush what she did under the carpet and does not like when it is brought back up. If we compare to Jean Grey, she takes accountability for the Dark Phoenix because her choice led to death of billions and understands she will never be forgiven.

(Though I do think the Empyre: X-Men mini series did a good job of putting Wanda on a path where she will eventually realise the impact of her actions on mutantkind.)

WV made me enjoy Wanda a lot more because you can see she understands how terrible her actions were and that she will never be forgiven.

If there are any comics where Wanda has a self-reflection of the impact of HoM, please let me know because I would love to read.

Comics has been very wishy washy with it. They had her be sorry in Children's Crusade and try to undo it. Then took that power out of her hands immediately. Then had her help Hope in AvX, only to have her just not care at all in UA. They did not have a clear plan for redemption and the sloppiness shows it.

[Lucyinthesky]

Personally, WV made me enjoy the character of Wanda a lot more because one of the biggest problems I have with her in the comics is a lack of accountability for her actions in HoM/Decimation.

I know Wanda went through a terrible tragedy, and for that I understand why she did the HoM but, I do not think she realises the impact her actions had.

For example, William Stryker, a religious zealot saw Wanda's actions as an act of God so went on a crusade, killing innocent children at the Xavier school. Even if resurrections can now take place, the remaining students at the time had to live with seeing there friends die due to a hate crime. They will never forget what happened because of Wanda.

The repercussions of Wanda's actions were so deep that it almost destroyed an entire species, and even those who survived went through changes you cannot come back from. Then, when Wanda appeared in AVX, she spoke about not being understood by her own species to Hope, but it sounded like a lack of self-awareness on the consequences of her actions. It feels like she wants to brush what she did under the carpet and does not like when it is brought back up. If we compare to Jean Grey, she takes accountability for the Dark Phoenix because her choice led to death of billions and understands she will never be forgiven.

(Though I do think the Empyre: X-Men mini series did a good job of putting Wanda on a path where she will eventually realise the impact of her actions on mutantkind.)

WV made me enjoy Wanda a lot more because you can see she understands how terrible her actions were and that she will never be forgiven.

If there are any comics where Wanda has a self-reflection of the impact of HoM, please let me know because I would love to read.

Avengers: Children´s Crusade also had her be sorry for HoM but this was before AvX

[CosmiComic]

Comics has been very wishy washy with it. They had her be sorry in Children's Crusade and try to undo it. Then took that power out of her hands immediately. Then had her help Hope in AvX, only to have her just not care at all in UA. They did not have a clear plan for redemption and the sloppiness shows it.

That's kinda thr problem. There's no consistent plan. That's why it's kinda hard for me to bash the characters when the artists aren't doing their job

[Lucyinthesky]

I think a what if type Age of Apocalypse scenario could work on d+

I'd actual feel like some villanous mutants would work for Hydra because they could both have that superiority complex going for them

Usually groups like Hydra are the same ones who go after mutants like the reavers or the friends of humanity but I could see Mr Sinister working with them because he mostly cares about the science and is fascinated with the idea of finding the perfect genetic mix for a mutant and Apocalypse could see this as an opportunity of finding the stronger mutants, because according to his phylosophy those are the ones that are worthy of survival but seeing what they did with Thanos I expect to see a little more subtle take on the two of them.

Magneto in the comics was a Nazi hunter who worked for a group called control so he has already found and destroyed some Hydra cells before they really developed into Hydra.

[GenericUsername]

That's kinda thr problem. There's no consistent plan. That's why it's kinda hard for me to bash the characters when the artists aren't doing their job

In this case it was writers and editors that decided this.

[CosmiComic]

Usually groups like Hydra are the same ones who go after mutants like the reavers or the friends of humanity but I could see Mr Sinister working with them because he mostly cares about the science and is fascinated with the idea of finding the perfect mix for a mutant and Apocalypse could see this as an opportunity of finding the stronger mutants, because according to his phylosophy those are the ones that are worthy of survival but seeing what they did with Thanos I expect to see a little more subtle take on the two of them.

Magneto in the comics was a Nazi hunter who worked for a group called control so he has already found and destroyed some Hydra cells before they really developed into Hydra.

That's true. Hydra has experimented on mutants before. I was just thinking of some more what if scenarios, rather than a regular thing

I feel Apocalypse has a vaguely eugenicist attitude which could somewhat align with Hydra like groups ironically

One thing I don't want in thr MCU is for the Avengers to not help out any mutants. IMO they should work together ij some capacity

[CosmiComic]

In this case it was writers and editors that decided this.

Yeah. They should try to fix it

[Lucyinthesky]

That's true. Hydra has experimented on mutants before. I was just thinking of some more what if scenarios, rather than a regular thing

I feel Apocalypse has a vaguely eugenicist attitude which could somewhat align with Hydra like groups ironically

One thing I don't want in thr MCU is for the Avengers to not help out any mutants. IMO they should work together ij some capacity

This will depend on how the MCU develop the story but I dont think this will be a problem they deal well with Thor having Hulk help him out with Asgard and Tony had War machine so maybe this time we will see more team ups between characters in a way we have not been able to see in comics.

[CosmiComic]

This will depend on how the MCU develop the story but I dont think this will be a problem they deal well with Thor having Hulk help him out with Asgard and Tony had War machine so maybe this time we will see more team ups between characters in a way we have not been able to see in comics.

I don't even really need team ups. Just that if mutants get attacked on a bigger scale, at least some of the Avengers or other teams will be there by the X-Men's side

But you're right in that right now the team is somewhat broken up. Let's see whay happens with the future teams

[CJStriker]

Comics has been very wishy washy with it. They had her be sorry in Children's Crusade and try to undo it. Then took that power out of her hands immediately. Then had her help Hope in AvX, only to have her just not care at all in UA. They did not have a clear plan for redemption and the sloppiness shows it.

Avengers: Children´s Crusade also had her be sorry for HoM but this was before AvX

Avengers: Children´s Crusade is an Important choice and one that anyone on this subject should read to get clarity.

However the book Had a cure for Mutants, a Cure Wanda was willing to give and work to make happen, they the X-Men came in wanting none of it even thought their whole goal of the last few years was more mutants, they gave that up for more of a get even with Wanda story then a fixing the problem they said they where made about.

I have gotten told that those X-Men where written OOC, not to take the serious and I have, but seems easy to say they can be said OOC and accept, but this is where the problem lies.

Marvel Made clear before the HoM event that They Themselves wanted Lesser Mutants. It was by Joe Quesada's had with likley support from the X-Editorial to do this and we got 16 million mutants dead Genosha, way more that are just DEAD, they how many lost their powers in HoM, but that is talked about less.

Children's Crusade was to show Wanda's true caring nature and desire to make right, but Marvel did not want her to make right cause they where stuck on feeling less mutants where better for Stories and Better for Marvel.

We can bagger on about Wanda this and Wanda That all day, but even if you had more story to her with being sorry and regretful which we got already, the Main Problem is Marvel still voting to keep mutants Low evne with the Kraoka thing going on.

Until Fan Address this to Marvel, No real desire to change will happen and fans need to spend more time on Them in RL soulutions if they have ways to make their voices heard, then being upset at a fiction character to somehow what, do it for them?!

[CosmiComic]

Avengers: Children´s Crusade is an Important choice and one that anyone on this subject should read to get clarity.

However the book Had a cure for Mutants, a Cure Wanda was willing to give and work to make happen, they the X-Men came in wanting none of it even thought their whole goal of the last few years was more mutants, they gave that up for more of a get even with Wanda story then a fixing the problem they said they where made about.

I have gotten told that those X-Men where written OOC, not to take the serious and I have, but seems easy to say they can be said OOC and accept, but this is where the problem lies.

Marvel Made clear before the HoM event that They Themselves wanted Lesser Mutants. It was by Joe Quesada's had with likley support from the X-Editorial to do this and we got 16 million mutants dead Genosha, way more that are just DEAD, they how many lost their powers in HoM, but that is talked about less.

Children's Crusade was to show Wanda's true caring nature and desire to make right, but Marvel did not want her to make right cause they where stuck on feeling less mutants where better for Stories and Better for Marvel.

We can bagger on about Wanda this and Wanda That all day, but even if you had more story to her with being sorry and regretful which we got already, the Main Problem is Marvel still voting to keep mutants Low evne with the Kraoka thing going on.

Until Fan Address this to Marvel, No real desire to change will happen and fans need to spend more time on Them in RL soulutions if they have ways to make their voices heard, then being upset at a fiction character to somehow what, do it for them?!

So basically Marvel is dragging all this out for what, sales? Controversy?

[Journey]

I'm telling y'all uncanny avengers Wanda is the superior modern day version, sis was fed up with the BS & I lived for it, Children's Crusade & AvsX had her being all apologetic for the shit, & in Crusade she tried to make amends they shot that shit down went ahead with the plan anyway & Eli fucked that up, AvsX she restored part of what was broken which was all she was capable of doing at the time. After that she tried to move on & people were still pressed & she said "fuck y'all feelings get the fuck over it or run up" & i lived for it who has the energy to keep apologizing for the same shit? Not me & apparently not Wanda either she was a queen in that run!!

[GenericUsername]

So basically Marvel is dragging all this out for what, sales? Controversy?

Don't know at this point. With publishing so screwed up right now, no one has numbers on what is selling but Marvel. X-books usually sell fairly reasonable (besides some solo books), so they really shouldn't need controversy to carry it's sales. The only close idea we have of sales right now is from Comixology/Amazon and they don't list sales number or order, just the titles that are selling the best.

[gurkle]

I'm telling y'all uncanny avengers Wanda is the superior modern day version, sis was fed up with the BS & I lived for it, Children's Crusade & AvsX had her being all apologetic for the shit, & in Crusade she tried to make amends they shot that shit down went ahead with the plan anyway & Eli fucked that up, AvsX she restored part of what was broken which was all she was capable of doing at the time. After that she tried to move one & people were still pressed & she said "fuck y'all feelings get the fuck over it or run up" & i lived for it who has the energy to keep apologizing for the same shit? Not me & apparently not Wanda either she was a queen in that run!!

I still don't agree, but I do understand where you're coming from after watching her in Hickman's "Empyre" tie-in. The idea that this character, one of the greatest and longest-serving heroines in the Marvel superhero world, should be defined by three words in a story she barely even appeared in... well, it's hard not to get annoyed and want her to get annoyed too. She should know she would never have done anything like that, as well as her fans know it.

If she were actually sticking up for herself in the Hickman run it would be different, but literally no one is sticking up for her, including her. I still don't like the way Remender wrote her, but I wouldn't mind seeing her pop up on Krakoa and be a little more assertive. It'll never happen, though, so I'll have to content myself with this panel from a non-canon Claremont comic nobody liked.

[CJStriker]

So basically Marvel is dragging all this out for what, sales? Controversy?

Don't know at this point. With publishing so screwed up right now, no one has numbers on what is selling but Marvel. X-books usually sell fairly reasonable (besides some solo books), so they really shouldn't need controversy to carry it's sales. The only close idea we have of sales right now is from Comixology/Amazon and they don't list sales number or order, just the titles that are selling the best.

Yea I think it is Marvel Just feels that they can't tell good mutant stories if their are too many mutants, the Persecution of Minorities story that has been the central theme of X-Men for so long. However wither it is 20 million mutants or 200 mutants, Persecution is Persecution, it make for more compelling stories if the X-Men had to defend millions of mutants then just what was cause of those stories just a few hundred. But Marvel felt that less meant they could tell better and more Drama stories.

They seem to be fixing this with Kraoko but I say it is too early to tell yet.

It just all comes down to Writers not wanting to evolve the core ideal of a brand in fear of losing longtime readers and blowback if to much is changed. Hickman seems to have taken risks with this idea and that is good, but it has had blowback too.

So may Marvel is finally ready for more mutants, but we have to see, but so far this is why I think they have not fixed it fully yet, ill confidance in themselves to tell stories outside their ideal of the normal.