Scarlet Witch/ Wanda Maximoff Discussion (Specifically about dislike)

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, they may have problems and seem dated in many ways. But character consistency was there for the vast majority. It was from there that Marvel made their heroes and heroines personable, lovable and real. And Powers were explained, demonstrated and expanded upon. It just gives a more rounded understanding.

Some heroes back then were likeable, but many weren't, at least to me. Although neither are a lot of "dark and gritty" versions either.

[Phoenixx9]

Some heroes back then were likeable, but many weren't, at least to me. Although neither are a lot of "dark and gritty" versions either.

Oh I understand. I was just trying to help. Sorry if it didn't.

[CosmiComic]

Oh I understand. I was just trying to help. Sorry if it didn't.

No I get what you're saying. They did set the foundation for the heroes

For instance, Thor started his whole "Shakespearean God" thing and his rivalry with Loki which continue to this day. Whereas the Hank-Jan relationship was a bit awkward at times.

[MaximoffTrash]

The title is a bit misleading, I thought it is some kind of character dissing thread, but you want to discuss the reason behind some hate toward her character right?

[irlkittypryde]

Yes exactly! I had trouble figuring out the best title

[gurkle]

I've known people who hate her in the comics for what they did to the mutants, but like her in the MCU even though she set the Hulk loose on a city and then held a town hostage.

Remember, a lot of "hatred" of a character is based on their role in a story. Everyone knows that the only reason Wanda wiped out mutants is that the writers made her do it. But if someone is a big X-comics fan and not an Avengers comics fan, then her role, to them, is a villainous one. They know that if they loved Avengers comics they'd see her differently, but they don't. Hating her is part of the game of having emotional responses to stories that aren't real.

Then there's the flipside: why do most people like MCU Wanda even after what she did to the people of Westview? Because the people of Westview are just treated as props in the story. They had like 5 minutes of screen time as themselves; we, the viewer, pretty much only know them as Wanda's sitcom supporting cast. (And also, Wanda is played by a beautiful movie star, and the reason stars are stars is because they are so likeable, no matter what they're doing.) So even though we all know they're right to hate her at the end, it's hard for us to care about them.

One reason the writers made Monica so defensive of Wanda, right to the end, is that Monica is the new character and Wanda is the star of the show, and the audience would never like Monica if she were mean to Wanda. Just like in Avengers: Age of Ultron some viewers hated Wanda, but not for turning the Hulk loose, but for being mean to Tony Stark and the other established star characters.

So it's perfectly possible for someone to love MCU Wanda and hate comics Wanda for making the X-Men's lives so miserable. They know it's not real, but getting invested in a story is a game, and the game involves pretending like these characters are real people we can love or hate.

[GenericUsername]

I've known people who hate her in the comics for what they did to the mutants, but like her in the MCU even though she set the Hulk loose on a city and then held a town hostage.

Remember, a lot of "hatred" of a character is based on their role in a story. Everyone knows that the only reason Wanda wiped out mutants is that the writers made her do it. But if someone is a big X-comics fan and not an Avengers comics fan, then her role, to them, is a villainous one. They know that if they loved Avengers comics they'd see her differently, but they don't. Hating her is part of the game of having emotional responses to stories that aren't real.

Then there's the flipside: why do most people like MCU Wanda even after what she did to the people of Westview? Because the people of Westview are just treated as props in the story. They had like 5 minutes of screen time as themselves; we, the viewer, pretty much only know them as Wanda's sitcom supporting cast. (And also, Wanda is played by a beautiful movie star, and the reason stars are stars is because they are so likeable, no matter what they're doing.) So even though we all know they're right to hate her at the end, it's hard for us to care about them.

One reason the writers made Monica so defensive of Wanda, right to the end, is that Monica is the new character and Wanda is the star of the show, and the audience would never like Monica if she were mean to Wanda. Just like in Avengers: Age of Ultron some viewers hated Wanda, but not for turning the Hulk loose, but for being mean to Tony Stark and the other established star characters.

So it's perfectly possible for someone to love MCU Wanda and hate comics Wanda for making the X-Men's lives so miserable. They know it's not real, but getting invested in a story is a game, and the game involves pretending like these characters are real people we can love or hate.

That might be it because in comics she was possessed, in the show, her powers took control of her and even though at some point she's aware of what's going on, her grief won't let her change it. Because she's too scared of a world without a family. In the movies she thought the Avengers were villains supporting Tony who killed her parents and of course this was meant to reflect her time on the Brotherhood.

In all she doesn't mean for bad things to happen. But they did. But people have a stronger tie to mutants. Even though most of the ones killed off were created for that story. And most of the ones depowered got their powers back. People still have a stronger response to mutants, because of their publication history.

[CosmiComic]

I've known people who hate her in the comics for what they did to the mutants, but like her in the MCU even though she set the Hulk loose on a city and then held a town hostage.

Remember, a lot of "hatred" of a character is based on their role in a story. Everyone knows that the only reason Wanda wiped out mutants is that the writers made her do it. But if someone is a big X-comics fan and not an Avengers comics fan, then her role, to them, is a villainous one. They know that if they loved Avengers comics they'd see her differently, but they don't. Hating her is part of the game of having emotional responses to stories that aren't real.

Then there's the flipside: why do most people like MCU Wanda even after what she did to the people of Westview? Because the people of Westview are just treated as props in the story. They had like 5 minutes of screen time as themselves; we, the viewer, pretty much only know them as Wanda's sitcom supporting cast. (And also, Wanda is played by a beautiful movie star, and the reason stars are stars is because they are so likeable, no matter what they're doing.) So even though we all know they're right to hate her at the end, it's hard for us to care about them.

One reason the writers made Monica so defensive of Wanda, right to the end, is that Monica is the new character and Wanda is the star of the show, and the audience would never like Monica if she were mean to Wanda. Just like in Avengers: Age of Ultron some viewers hated Wanda, but not for turning the Hulk loose, but for being mean to Tony Stark and the other established star characters.

So it's perfectly possible for someone to love MCU Wanda and hate comics Wanda for making the X-Men's lives so miserable. They know it's not real, but getting invested in a story is a game, and the game involves pretending like these characters are real people we can love or hate.

What does that say about us as humans?

[gurkle]

What does that say about us as humans?

We feel emotional about things that didn't happen to people who don't exist. Feeling emotion even when it isn't rational is part of what makes us human, for sure.

[CosmiComic]

We feel emotional about things that didn't happen to people who don't exist. Feeling emotion even when it isn't rational is part of what makes us human, for sure.

True, I was just being faux-poetic. But I do feel they maybe shouldn't have these "heroes" do all these questionable things then get away with it

[Tofali]

Do you all think that people are disliking/ expressing hate towards Wanda right now because of the popularity she's having due to WV. I'm curious what everyone's opinons are!

Unfortunately the character is a target because she UNINTENTIONALLY does things that are hateable.

X-Fans have reasons to hate her for No More Mutants

I don't pay that much attention to MCU fans BUT they can cite the lack of consequence of her imprisonment of Westview Residents

She will always have her mental illness to hide behind all her horrible deeds so if you are a fan of the character you don't have to worry about it

[gurkle]

Unfortunately the character is a target because she UNINTENTIONALLY does things that are hateable.

X-Fans have reasons to hate her for No More Mutants

I don't pay that much attention to MCU fans BUT they can cite the lack of consequence of her imprisonment of Westview Residents

She will always have her mental illness to hide behind all her horrible deeds so if you are a fan of the character you don't have to worry about it

The "No More Mutants" thing hurts her more because it really was intentional. The best you can say is she's not in her right mind, but she was angry with her dad and took out her anger on mutantkind just because her dad was known for caring about mutantkind. Not good to hurt innocent people to get back at your dad.

In Avengers Disassembled, she really did seem to be causing everything subconsciously. In her show, it was originally subconscious and then became more conscious as time went on, but at least she did the right thing in the end. That makes her a character who's not entirely heroic but isn't a villain (yet). House of M just makes her a straight-up villain in the end.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah but Marvel could make the effort to rehabilitate her image

[GenericUsername]

The "No More Mutants" thing hurts her more because it really was intentional. The best you can say is she's not in her right mind, but she was angry with her dad and took out her anger on mutantkind just because her dad was known for caring about mutantkind. Not good to hurt innocent people to get back at your dad.

In Avengers Disassembled, she really did seem to be causing everything subconsciously. In her show, it was originally subconscious and then became more conscious as time went on, but at least she did the right thing in the end. That makes her a character who's not entirely heroic but isn't a villain (yet). House of M just makes her a straight-up villain in the end.

I don't think you can say it was intentional when she was possessed by the Life Force and had none of those same feelings after it was removed.

[PwrdOn]

I think a lot of X-Men fans like to fixate on House of M less for the in-story consequences, which let's be honest were minimal for most of the named characters and mostly just implied, and more for how it represented the X-Men losing their status as Marvel's premier franchise and being sidelined into an irrelevant corner of the MU. Of course, this was entirely due to an editorial mandate to stop promoting franchises that Marvel didn't own the film rights to, and so they hastily cobbled together a story and made Wanda the scapegoat because, for whatever reason, that group of writers just didn't really like her and didn't want the fallout to hamper a character they actually wanted to use. And there is still is an apparent disconnect between the people in charge of the MCU, who clearly have an affection for Wanda and put a lot of thought and care into crafting a emotionally resonant storyline for her, and the publishing division, who pretty much go out of their way to keep trying to get fans to hate her, if they bother to use her at all.

I've seen a lot of X-Men fans try to argue that Wanda should be hated because she's a genocidal villain, but the thing about that is, Wanda doesn't really work as a villain because nobody really sees her as threatening. Yes she technically has a very potent set of powers and has had some impressive moments here and there, but I feel like comic fans fixate way too much on that and don't think enough about the kind of impression that the character makes on the audience. And though Wanda's characterization has made some progress since her early days as the token damsel in distress, she's still generally portrayed as emotionally unstable and vulnerable, and I'm fairly certain that it's this perception of weakness is the real reason that both editorial and the X-Men fans don't like her. If Wanda were truly this mass murdering supervillain, then nobody would go out of their way to hate her character the same way nobody really hates Thanos or Galactus - their actions fill a role in the story and if they are written well then the more heinous their actions the more effective they will be at making the story work. Wanda was really badly miscast as the villain in Disassembled and House of M, so much so that they really aren't about her at all, and as a result those stories ended up being disappointing and unsatisfying to fans.