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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    See, I get the anger at SW, although it could be considered OOC, but letting actual genocidal murderers and dictators waltz free while bashing her seems inconsistent
    Well that's because Magneto is an actual villain, and doing evil **** is part of his character and he's become one of the most iconic bad guys in comics precisely because he manages to be threatening and ominous whenever he shows up. Sure he has a somewhat sympathetic side, but look what happens whenever writers lean into that and try to turn him into a hero, he completely loses his mojo and just becomes this sad old man. So when Magneto does evil stuff, people sort of understand that it's necessary for the purpose of the story to create conflict and drama, and don't hate him as a character for it.

    By contrast, Wanda simply does not work as a villain at all, you just can't make her seem scary to the audience without making her a complete different person. So when she does evil things on panel, it just takes you out of the story entirely and makes you mad that you wasted your money at all. Her backstory, motivations, and overall personality just aren't suited to a villainous persona, and all of the X-Men fans who keep insisting that she is one just come off more like that SWORD guy from Wandavision to me.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I personally operate on the belief any publicity is good publicity Wanda has so much clout she's iconic honestly & currently living her best life albeit offpage, it's honestly a serve lowkey she's winning.

  3. #63
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    Has Magneto paid for everything he's done?

    As for Scarlet Witch, her behavior was wrong, but many heroes did unacceptable things, like in Civil War I and II, yet those got swept under the rug

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Hypocrisy

    Basically.

    Hickman’s entire run has been built on the concept.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    X-men characters don't operate on a simple or basic good or evil axis and magneto has paid his dues and gotten his L's, wanda is the homelander of the marvel universe, was she a pure villain id care far less, but her "im still part of earths mightest heroes giving press conferences" type of heroic just rubs me the wrong way like every evil figure in fiction that hides behind titles and PR.
    Once wanda gets some type of consequences ill be happy! until then and after she's the pretender.
    This is why I think the whole Pretender arc in X-Men would work so much better if Wanda were actually on the Avengers where she belongs, instead of in limbo doing absolutely nothing.

    The contrast between Wanda's status among Avengers fans and her status among X-Men readers who aren't Avengers fans would actually make for good storytelling. But we've had none of that except that one line in S.W.O.R.D. about how Teddy thinks Wanda is awesome and finds it disappointing that Krakoa considers her an enemy of the state.

    Maybe her popularity will actually force Marvel to put her on the Avengers and do that story, without demonizing either side, but instead show how the same character can quite reasonably be considered a hero and the world's worst villain depending on your point of view.

    But I doubt it.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJStriker View Post
    See Indeed for even a parts of your points like Wanda Not being used in the Comics we can agree upon, so Their is Common Ground their is to have.

    Also I remember you and me Ferro where in more agreement then disagreement over the Empyre X-men stuff as well hoping it go somewhere but they flopped on that it seemed by the end, which just dispointed those hoping for more if they where finally going their.

    I don't think it is even a Matter of Perspective or Want, more that the only way to do a Final Book about this whole Wanda and X-Men debate would need to be taken Seriously by Marvel and be the conclusion of it in the end that sets good for both parts of the Fandom, Wanda Fans and X-Men Fans.

    But I also believe their are Plenty of X-Fans and I Know Plenty that are also Loving Wanda Fans too, Me Included Allot!

    We want to see it work out for both sides cause any divide while we debate it's logic and points at times want it to come to an end as well so any story that pleases both sides to the best it can, not perfect, but above normal would be good.

    HOWEVER, Indeed it is understandable why many, espically Wanda Fans don't want that book and makes sense cause we don't trust Marvel to do it justice and many feel it is time to move forward cause it never seems to work out.

    No Fandom wants more pain or contested dialogue for any characters between them, so until then I side with not doing it until Marvel puts on Big-Boy pants and proves they are serious and that be allot of proving the have to do and I don't know how they do it. To Give Confidence in Us, Marvel has to show they are Serious at the very least as a starting point and still they need to work to earn that respect.

    So I get it and Hope for the Better in the Future Despite these differences, but it is always good to find common ground too.
    I mean it does come to prespective cj, the disagreement over empyre x-men proves it, its a perfect issue to showcasse what i meant.
    In that mini hickman was writing about wanda FOR the x-fans , to try to paint her in a better light to make her more sympathetic/remorsefull, to counter exodus/uncanny avengers showcassing of wanda.
    But it also validated many opinions that x-men fan's have about her, that she's acts witout thinking of the consequences, self centered, reckless and doesnt understand the severity of her actions or has the wisdom to try to attone in a mature way.

    chosing instead to create massive acts of magic to try to soothe her own spirit and make herself a hero once more, but still seperating herself from the people she wants redemption from, never really interacting with them in an humble way, prostrating herself before the harmed party.
    Dr Strange was pratically giving her the lecture many readers were waiting for since children's crusade, and yes it was near malicious and toxic to write wanda that way when you care about her, but for the x-men's narrative it was cathartic and satisfying, a moment where she finally got some consequences from her peers and that narrative doesn't try to remove her guilt.

    It is what it is, the x-writers have no reason to stop writing about a character that caused 10 years of stories in a negative way since it's not their job to care about wanda or her fans, but to write a satisfying x-men story.
    and in many stories, the villains need to suffer at some point.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    This is why I think the whole Pretender arc in X-Men would work so much better if Wanda were actually on the Avengers where she belongs, instead of in limbo doing absolutely nothing.

    The contrast between Wanda's status among Avengers fans and her status among X-Men readers who aren't Avengers fans would actually make for good storytelling. But we've had none of that except that one line in S.W.O.R.D. about how Teddy thinks Wanda is awesome and finds it disappointing that Krakoa considers her an enemy of the state.

    Maybe her popularity will actually force Marvel to put her on the Avengers and do that story, without demonizing either side, but instead show how the same character can quite reasonably be considered a hero and the world's worst villain depending on your point of view.

    But I doubt it.
    I had to laugh at this, such a joke. She is doing her own things, drinking tea, doing yoga and mutants are treating her like she was a state enemy

  8. #68
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    I kinda find it unhelpful if the X-comics prolong the hatred

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Has Magneto paid for everything he's done?

    As for Scarlet Witch, her behavior was wrong, but many heroes did unacceptable things, like in Civil War I and II, yet those got swept under the rug
    magneto got a trial and his head choped off and many other instances of him getting violently defeated.
    Wanda gets to cry and suddenly her omniversal genocide that caused issues in reality itself suddenly doesn't matter

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I kinda find it unhelpful if the X-comics prolong the hatred
    YES

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Has Magneto paid for everything he's done?

    As for Scarlet Witch, her behavior was wrong, but many heroes did unacceptable things, like in Civil War I and II, yet those got swept under the rug
    Magneto pays for anything? this is funnya

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    YES



    Magneto pays for anything? this is funnya
    Some here are saying he has.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    magneto got a trial and his head choped off and many other instances of him getting violently defeated.
    Wanda gets to cry and suddenly her omniversal genocide that caused issues in reality itself suddenly doesn't matter
    But didn't he come back and do more questionable acts after that?

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Basically.

    Hickman’s entire run has been built on the concept.
    The whole of 616 is built on the concept damn near every story which is why holding grudges against any of these characters is pointless like 4 what? Let's be real about this the supposed Karma Wanda deserves according to X-Fans is never gonna happen she took some L's bounced back now it's done, they can call her a pretender till the cows come home, build multiple songs, rules, & propaganda around the new mutant society till their blue in the face, frankly I think Krakoa is playing themselves they look like clowns giving this woman all this clout you done made her enemy of the state, if y'all really wanted to **** on her they would pay her dust the rest of that **** just makes her look iconic! The least they could have done was brought in Cupkkake and have her put a fire ass verse on that weak ass pretender track cause what they got goin on now is lyrically a mess & invalid!

    I got off fucking track point is all these characters are hypocrites & murderers. Wanda has M-Day and all the affects of it, Logan don't even get me started, Mags, Apocalypse, Sinister the Nazi, Stark, Rodgers, Thor, Iceman murdered 100's because he was in a gay crisis! This is all on the writers what is the point of holding grudges?

    Last edited by Journey; 03-26-2021 at 07:51 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I kinda find it unhelpful if the X-comics prolong the hatred
    to whom? wanda?
    she's an avengers character that's brevoots job to care about , it makes no sense for the x-men writer to account for what her character needs or deserves, she's the pretender and that has been a hell of a juicy story for these books, that's all that matters.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    to whom? wanda?
    she's an avengers character that's brevoots job to care about , it makes no sense for the x-men writer to account for what her character needs or deserves, she's the pretender and that has been a hell of a juicy story for these books, that's all that matters.
    To comics as a whole. The Avengers and X-Men sides seems to still be at odds and fans continue to buy into it witht the pretender nonsense and such

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