Scarlet Witch/ Wanda Maximoff Discussion (Specifically about dislike)

[Ferro]

But didn't he come back and do more questionable acts after that?

Nope lol, magnetos last stint as a villain was on morrisons run and that has been retconed to high heaven and he hasnt be a villain since then, joining charles on the book excalibur, then joining the x-men around utopia.
even his 90's part as a villain was convoluted with him bouncing betwen anti hero and villain, and in the 80's he was headmaster only leaving the school after his immense regret over Doug Ramseys death.
the "magneto is the greatest x-men villain" is just feed by the 90's it really isnt supported by the majority of the books, a few more years and magneto like emma frost would have been a non villain longer than he has a full villain and even left him as the ruler of genosha with some serious wounds

[gurkle]

It is what it is, the x-writers have no reason to stop writing about a character that caused 10 years of stories in a negative way since it's not their job to care about wanda or her fans, but to write a satisfying x-men story.
and in many stories, the villains need to suffer at some point.

Yeah, exactly. Until there is an official retcon that removes Wanda's guilt, and there never has been because Marvel wants to keep milking that particular cow, complaining that X-Men books are mean to Wanda is a bit like making the same complaint about a story from Westview's perspective (only more so, because what comics Wanda did was much more villainous).

The Avengers office could be making stories where Wanda is doing Avenger things and not getting involved with mutant stuff one way or the other, like they did for decades. Instead they won't use her in anything, but that's not exactly Hickman's problem. The "pretender" stuff gets her fans angry because she's not in any comics, but they could be using her in comics and doing the pretender storyline at the same time, they just won't.

[Journey]

Yeah, exactly. Until there is an official retcon that removes Wanda's guilt, and there never has been because Marvel wants to keep milking that particular cow, complaining that X-Men books are mean to Wanda is a bit like making the same complaint about a story from Westview's perspective (only more so, because what comics Wanda did was much more villainous).

The Avengers office could be making stories where Wanda is doing Avenger things and not getting involved with mutant stuff one way or the other, like they did for decades. Instead they won't use her in anything, but that's not exactly Hickman's problem. The "pretender" stuff gets her fans angry because she's not in any comics, but they could be using her in comics and doing the pretender storyline at the same time, they just won't.

Honestly boggles the mind it's like they giving her clout but at the same time don't do **** with it weird behavior.

[CosmiComic]

Haven't the X-Men accepted help from other villains as well?

[Journey]

Haven't the X-Men accepted help from other villains as well?

Magneto himself a Holocaust survivor mind you sits across the room on a council with a former "Nazi" so yeah!

[Ferro]

Haven't the X-Men accepted help from other villains as well?

wandas also an editorial outsider

[CJStriker]

To comics as a whole. The Avengers and X-Men sides seems to still be at odds and fans continue to buy into it witht the pretender nonsense and such

Yea, that is why it is best not to sink yourself into the debates or never ending arguements to much on the thread cause no matter what honest and compelling questions and points you make, their is always a re-bond to that, so it never really ends.

If you choose to have the debate that is fine and it should happen, you have the right to enjoy and debate what yo want and how much you want.

But if you are feeling overwelmed by it, I would not get to twisted in worry about it cause it is in our corner of the net that has this as well as some others to various degrees. I been out in other parts of the net and in Life and this kind of debate is really not the cocerning factor mostly.

At this point most people Love Wanda, Enjoy her charcters and don't get as serious as we do about the factors of these stories. Even the hardcore fans I talk to in Real Life All Blame Marvel, Bendis and Joe Quesada for these faults as well more then any character in the story as well as their respected editing houses.

If some Fans don't like her, they don't, it is a factor of all fandoms.

Best way to view this all Mik is to Hope for Better stories to come in the future to Fix things if their serious about it, but don't let that take away from your enjoyment of the character cause of the debates.

It happens with all franchises and characters, just do and engage in what you want to, but remember to love what you do.

Honestly for Me all this just makes me Love Wanda More and Want to learn more about her.

[PwrdOn]

Nope lol, magnetos last stint as a villain was on morrisons run and that has been retconed to high heaven and he hasnt be a villain since then, joining charles on the book excalibur, then joining the x-men around utopia.
even his 90's part as a villain was convoluted with him bouncing betwen anti hero and villain, and in the 80's he was headmaster only leaving the school after his immense regret over Doug Ramseys death.
the "magneto is the greatest x-men villain" is just feed by the 90's it really isnt supported by the majority of the books, a few more years and magneto like emma frost would have been a non villain longer than he has a full villain and even left him as the ruler of genosha with some serious wounds

Yeah but the thing about that is, Magneto and Emma Frost were both way better as villains because turning them into heroes robbed them of anything interesting. Magneto's whole schtick was that he was a Holocaust survivor who turned into a fascist himself, that's a hell of a mindfuck and makes his character iconic. But when you go and make it so that his dream of building a mutant ethnostate was good actually and that all humans deserve whatever's coming to them because they oppress mutants, well then it starts reading more like a fanfic written by someone who doesn't understand the character or the franchise, and that has been a persistent problem with the X-Men line for a number of years. And don't even get me started on Emma, to go from being the White Queen and all around boss ass bitch, to being some simpering sycophant just pining for Cyclops all day, what a damn waste.

This doesn't mean that characters don't evolve or that we shouldn't embrace villains with complex or sympathetic motivations. But the trick with that is, you always stop just short of actually turning them into heroes, because at that point they lose all of the qualities that made them special, and instead of being a dynamic focal point of a storyline they just become another member of the team that fans will inevitably complain never gets enough to do.

[Rang10]

To comics as a whole. The Avengers and X-Men sides seems to still be at odds and fans continue to buy into it witht the pretender nonsense and such

It is mostly x-men fans, they never let it go

[CosmiComic]

Magneto himself a Holocaust survivor mind you sits across the room on a council with a former "Nazi" so yeah!

Makes no sense

wandas also an editorial outsider

Uh, ok?

It is mostly x-men fans, they never let it go

I sympathize with their frustration, but I would direct it more at the people at Marvel Comics

[CosmiComic]

Yea, that is why it is best not to sink yourself into the debates or never ending arguements to much on the thread cause no matter what honest and compelling questions and points you make, their is always a re-bond to that, so it never really ends.

If you choose to have the debate that is fine and it should happen, you have the right to enjoy and debate what yo want and how much you want.

But if you are feeling overwelmed by it, I would not get to twisted in worry about it cause it is in our corner of the net that has this as well as some others to various degrees. I been out in other parts of the net and in Life and this kind of debate is really not the cocerning factor mostly.

At this point most people Love Wanda, Enjoy her charcters and don't get as serious as we do about the factors of these stories. Even the hardcore fans I talk to in Real Life All Blame Marvel, Bendis and Joe Quesada for these faults as well more then any character in the story as well as their respected editing houses.

If some Fans don't like her, they don't, it is a factor of all fandoms.

Best way to view this all Mik is to Hope for Better stories to come in the future to Fix things if their serious about it, but don't let that take away from your enjoyment of the character cause of the debates.

It happens with all franchises and characters, just do and engage in what you want to, but remember to love what you do.

Honestly for Me all this just makes me Love Wanda More and Want to learn more about her.

I appreciate it. To be fair, I don't condone what she did in No More Mutants, but I recognize it was an OOC action imposed by the company, just like the OOC actions in Civil War.

[CJStriker]

I mean it does come to prespective cj, the disagreement over empyre x-men proves it, its a perfect issue to showcasse what i meant.
In that mini hickman was writing about wanda FOR the x-fans , to try to paint her in a better light to make her more sympathetic/remorsefull, to counter exodus/uncanny avengers showcassing of wanda.
But it also validated many opinions that x-men fan's have about her, that she's acts witout thinking of the consequences, self centered, reckless and doesnt understand the severity of her actions or has the wisdom to try to attone in a mature way.

chosing instead to create massive acts of magic to try to soothe her own spirit and make herself a hero once more, but still seperating herself from the people she wants redemption from, never really interacting with them in an humble way, prostrating herself before the harmed party.
Dr Strange was pratically giving her the lecture many readers were waiting for since children's crusade, and yes it was near malicious and toxic to write wanda that way when you care about her, but for the x-men's narrative it was cathartic and satisfying, a moment where she finally got some consequences from her peers and that narrative doesn't try to remove her guilt.

It is what it is, the x-writers have no reason to stop writing about a character that caused 10 years of stories in a negative way since it's not their job to care about wanda or her fans, but to write a satisfying x-men story.
and in many stories, the villains need to suffer at some point.

I get it, so I would not worry that I or others Don't Get these Views either, but like Always and too often we can comeback with comeback on not only an differance in Perspective, but one in Tone, In Canon, In History and In Understand of the oppisite of these points, but then never stops the debating till the end of the thread cause no side is willing to ever yeild cause we both have point to always make that are valued to bring up.

Heck, if their was not their would be No Fans of Wanda to Begin with or No Fans willing to go this Far to Love and Stand-Up for her in the Darkest of times if thier where not the oppisite perspective and points and overall canon to work with.

Until I feel that Marvel Can and will be serious about any story ending this part of the fandom worlds debate, we just have our Serprate Views on a Character and I rather find more times to love a character and in hench my fellow poster then to find to much that divides us.

The Beauty in the Fandom is the Fan themselves and what we bring to the table.

So You Answered My questions, I hope things work out for the Future for both of us Ferro for both Wanda and X-Men in positive Ways we can't yet see the creators doing.

[useridgoeshere]

magneto got a trial and his head choped off and many other instances of him getting violently defeated.
Wanda gets to cry and suddenly her omniversal genocide that caused issues in reality itself suddenly doesn't matter

Yeah, Magneto and Scott are bad comparisons to use, since both have actually suffered far worse in-story for far less.

When you think about it, Magneto’s been on a crazy path for 40 years, up and down, redemption and relapsing. I think he can be whatever fans want, since even the writers couldn’t agree for decades. The Beyonder even put him with all the greatest heroes in the original Secret Wars. And like Wanda, he’s been more sympathetic in video, which seems to have a halo over the comics.

[CJStriker]

I appreciate it. To be fair, I don't condone what she did in No More Mutants, but I recognize it was an OOC action imposed by the company, just like the OOC actions in Civil War.

Indeed, that is one of the Better ways to view it Mik, it will allow out to enjoy who you enjoy more and the Debates to be more fun in the end!

Best way too is to Love or Learn to love more about characters you like like Wanda and why that is, best to focus on the Canon/Comics outside of those Stories that are negative like HoM and AD and the debates. That is where the Love Starts and where the love come from, Enjoy cause the work is being done!

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post5451602

[Rang10]

I sympathize with their frustration, but I would direct it more at the people at Marvel Comics

now the franchise is big again, they have Hickman. Really need to let it go, Wanda wasnt the reason x-men fell on quality