Suicide Squad Red Band trailer

[Vakanai]

In all fairness to Rob Liefeld (whose art, writing, and twitter I LOATHE), he's not as biased as you may think - he has taken a fair few shots at Marvel/Disney over the years in regards to the Deadpool franchise. However, I do think he's right in this case - WB has had terrible leadership in the past with this brand (as evidenced by the NEED for a Snyder Cut movement) which has led to them dragging behind Marvel in terms of popularity (talking about general audience). They have definitely started to right the ship, but if WB are looking to have something as lucrative as the MCU, they need to start making movies that appeal to everyone. As you've mentioned, Birds of Prey didn't have a wide enough reach, Snyder Cut was largely successful amongst its own fanbase, WW84 didn't have a great reception, and so far TSS is underperforming.

From a purely business perspective, it seems that DC is still playing catch up with Marvel. If they want to truly compete with Marvel, I hope the execs realise that they have to keep the IP building from the ground up - I think this movie is a great building block for them and they should be patient.

Sadly, if they really want to compete with the MCU, they need to copy the MCU - tightly connected family friendly action adventure comedies that are safe dumb fun popcorn affairs. It's not great, but it is a winning formula. DCEU's refusal to ape Marvel more closely has been the cause of their inconsistency.

[Jack The Tripper]

I am in an HBO country, and I think that might have made a difference - the marketing here in the US felt...very muted. If I weren't a fan on a site like this it could've been easy for me to forget about it I think. But then again, maybe that's just because marketing is moving more and more to social media, where I just am not.

Well, I agree the Flash will be the mission statement for the DCEU, but not necessarily for DC - there's still The Batman and further non-DCEU DC films to consider. I'm interested to see how it plays out with audience decisions - will the audience let the DCEU redeem itself, or do they flock to the films outside the shared universe approach?

Fair enough!

Yes sorry, I meant DCEU connected movies there - I wasn't including things like Joker and The Batman.

Sadly, if they really want to compete with the MCU, they need to copy the MCU - tightly connected family friendly action adventure comedies that are safe dumb fun popcorn affairs. It's not great, but it is a winning formula. DCEU's refusal to ape Marvel more closely has been the cause of their inconsistency.

I think they could be successful in doing a mix, like r rated TSS existing in the same universe as Wonder Woman etc - they just need to make sure the films are consistently decent*. The MCU has films that are better than others, but none of their films have been as egregious to the general public as BvS, JL, WW84, or Suicide Squad. Again, I think the DCEU's longevity will be determined by the Flash movie, and maybe Black Adam too. It remains to be seen whether the public will accept one and done "elseworld" type movies effectively outside of the batman brand. I suppose we'll see once the Abrams/Coates Superman film is released. I guess it could be a result of the Flash movie's multiversal plotline, in which case it may help audiences understand more?

*Of course R rated connected universe movies may not make as much as other, more family friendly offerings, but as long as there's a profit it's all good.*

[Castle]

I am in an HBO country, and I think that might have made a difference - the marketing here in the US felt...very muted. If I weren't a fan on a site like this it could've been easy for me to forget about it I think. But then again, maybe that's just because marketing is moving more and more to social media, where I just am not.

Well, I agree the Flash will be the mission statement for the DCEU, but not necessarily for DC - there's still The Batman and further non-DCEU DC films to consider. I'm interested to see how it plays out with audience decisions - will the audience let the DCEU redeem itself, or do they flock to the films outside the shared universe approach?

Yes, not for DC. DC and DCEU though may be used as a one description , they are still not always the same.

Honesty from everything I am seeing about Flash movie. I think what DC wants or how that movie will likely end, will be more like a Days of future past case. The movie will leave many open doors of anything possible that will come after. this will once and for all just get rid of the ultra tight cinematic crossover movies connection WB does not want to get trapped in anymore. Also with Patty Jenkins and now James Gunn, coming out more for stand alone movies in the DCEU. Flash now seems like the best chance to just do a reset course.We can have DCEU like the comics, not everything is painfully connected or self aware of what is going on somewhere else.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Sadly, if they really want to compete with the MCU, they need to copy the MCU - tightly connected family friendly action adventure comedies that are safe dumb fun popcorn affairs. It's not great, but it is a winning formula. DCEU's refusal to ape Marvel more closely has been the cause of their inconsistency.

They need to ape Marvel, in actually having a plan and offering genres. Until WW and this Suicide Squad, everything was either Snyder or Snyder lite

[Castle]

They need to ape Marvel, in actually having a plan and offering genres. Until WW and this Suicide Squad, everything was either Snyder or Snyder lite

I never thought they needed to ape marvel, while I have always been a strong defender of Snyder as a director making his movies and those movies been judged not by the fact it was not as fun as mcu films. this part of the Snyder films can not be defended at least if we are been objective.



Snyder and WB were wrong in doing it this way to play catch up.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I never thought they needed to ape marvel, while I have always been a strong defender of Snyder as a director making his movies and those movies been judged not by the fact it was not as fun as mcu films. this part of the Snyder films can not be defended at least if we are been objective.



Snyder and WB were wrong in doing it this way to play catch up.

Yes yes, we've seen your treatises a dozen times plus now.

The people have spoken, however

And yes, if they're going to do a shared canon, they at least need an idea of where they're going. That's called a plan.

[Vakanai]

Fair enough!

Yes sorry, I meant DCEU connected movies there - I wasn't including things like Joker and The Batman.

I figured, but I wouldn't dismiss them - there'll be more films like them going forward, and they might be better received than the DCEU films.

I think they could be successful in doing a mix, like r rated TSS existing in the same universe as Wonder Woman etc - they just need to make sure the films are consistently decent*. The MCU has films that are better than others, but none of their films have been as egregious to the general public as BvS, JL, WW84, or Suicide Squad. Again, I think the DCEU's longevity will be determined by the Flash movie, and maybe Black Adam too. It remains to be seen whether the public will accept one and done "elseworld" type movies effectively outside of the batman brand. I suppose we'll see once the Abrams/Coates Superman film is released. I guess it could be a result of the Flash movie's multiversal plotline, in which case it may help audiences understand more?

*Of course R rated connected universe movies may not make as much as other, more family friendly offerings, but as long as there's a profit it's all good.*

They could, but - their most successful DCEU films have been their most-like-the-MCU films - Aquaman and Shazam, with Wonder Woman kind of being an MCU film with less comedy. So it doesn't bode well that they can get away doing both if their non-MCU-like films keep not doing as well.

Yes, not for DC. DC and DCEU though may be used as a one description , they are still not always the same.

Honesty from everything I am seeing about Flash movie. I think what DC wants or how that movie will likely end, will be more like a Days of future past case. The movie will leave many open doors of anything possible that will come after. this will once and for all just get rid of the ultra tight cinematic crossover movies connection WB does not want to get trapped in anymore. Also with Patty Jenkins and now James Gunn, coming out more for stand alone movies in the DCEU. Flash now seems like the best chance to just do a reset course.We can have DCEU like the comics, not everything is painfully connected or self aware of what is going on somewhere else.

That's what I've wanted all along, but - literally almost all the rest of DC fans in this forum will hope you're wrong, because they want more connections not less, cause comic book fans.

They need to ape Marvel, in actually having a plan and offering genres. Until WW and this Suicide Squad, everything was either Snyder or Snyder lite

Marvel doesn't have genres - literally all their films are snappy/snarky/quippy action adventure comedies that are similar in tone and style. And I'm not knocking them either, I like MCU's quippy action adventure comedies, I'm just not going to say some of them aren't that when to me they all clearly have been. A few have had elements tacked on top of it, like heist film elements for Ant-Man, mild political thriller elements for Winter Soldier - still didn't make them not quippy action adventure comedies. But that was part of the MCU plan, seeing that such types of films do well, and DCEU should've realized those films do well and followed suit.
Also, Shazam, Aquaman, and BOP were not Snyder not Snyder-lite. Whether one likes them or not is a matter of personal preference, but they were clearly not Snyder-y films.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Marvel doesn't have genres - literally all their films are snappy/snarky/quippy action adventure comedies that are similar in tone and style. And I'm not knocking them either, I like MCU's quippy action adventure comedies, I'm just not going to say some of them aren't that when to me they all clearly have been. A few have had elements tacked on top of it, like heist film elements for Ant-Man, mild political thriller elements for Winter Soldier - still didn't make them not quippy action adventure comedies. But that was part of the MCU plan, seeing that such types of films do well, and DCEU should've realized those films do well and followed suit.
Also, Shazam, Aquaman, and BOP were not Snyder not Snyder-lite. Whether one likes them or not is a matter of personal preference, but they were clearly not Snyder-y films.

Winter Soldier and Black Widow were espionage, Iron Man (attempted) to be techno thriller, Ant-Man was a heist (despite denials). A few jokes and super powers here and there don't negate that

And my statement should have said, "Until WW, things were Snyder lite", my bad. Though BOP was the most corporate thing ever.

[Vakanai]

Winter Soldier and Black Widow were espionage, Iron Man (attempted) to be techno thriller, Ant-Man was a heist (despite denials). A few jokes and super powers here and there don't negate that

And my statement should have said, "Until WW, things were Snyder lite", my bad. Though BOP was the most corporate thing ever.

No, Winter Soldier had espionage elements (haven't seen BW yet), Ant-Man had heist elements, but they're all still either action adventure comedies, or comedic action adventures as Iron Man established as the foundational film that all others have followed. They may have a few trappings of other genres, but they never leave their funny action adventure cores. A few plot points here and there does not negate that.

[The Cool Thatguy]

No, Winter Soldier had espionage elements (haven't seen BW yet), Ant-Man had heist elements, but they're all still either action adventure comedies, or comedic action adventures as Iron Man established as the foundational film that all others have followed. They may have a few trappings of other genres, but they never leave their funny action adventure cores. A few plot points here and there does not negate that.

Bond quips when murdering a man, and it's a spy film.

Cap quips to ease tension when preparing to take down Shield, and it's a funny, light hearted action adventure.

Hmm...

[Vakanai]

Bond quips when murdering a man, and it's a spy film.

Cap quips to ease tension when preparing to take down Shield, and it's a funny, light hearted action adventure.

Hmm...

I didn't say that the quips were what prevented them from being other genres did I? But keep focusing on that one thing.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I didn't say that the quips were what prevented them from being other genres did I? But keep focusing on that one thing.

Then explain further, then.

[Vakanai]

Then explain further, then.

The tone doesn't change, many of the story elements are shared among the films, the elements it does take from other genres typically do not go very far (Winter Soldier is no James Bond film, the most "espionage" thing about it is the bad guys' secret identities happen to more more politician-y I guess?). Frankly I'm not the best at explaining, but at the end I guess the main thing is they don't feel like political thrillers, espionage films, heist films, etc. They all feel the same, but with a few mildly different genre trappings to spice it up a bit.

[batnbreakfast]

The biggest surprise was how much I liked Elba, Cena and Ratcatcher. I went in because of my love for the Ostrander SS run, Simone's Secret Six and the Kot SS run. Those 3 actors really were incredible charming in their roles. If we get a sequel I wish to see more Waller, espionage and politics, though. Like in Ostrander's run.
King Shark is superior to Groot, Rocket and Drax IMHO. Sly did a great job with a character who is not as ridiculous as he should be. Maybe its about Gunn's writing... all the characters felt like they were more interesting than they should be. The gore was a bit much but with Troma in your curriculum vitae... TSS kinda felt like Deadpool but MUCH BETTER imho.