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  1. #1216
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    I feel dawn of x is just introducing all of these concepts and seems to me like reign of x is more about how it effects the different characters.
    ...and Fall of X will be the endgame.
    It's the lack of patience that seems to have a lot of readers disappointed. The story clearly wasn't meant to be resolved in a matter of months...that's not how HX-Man writes...even moreso now that he's directing the entire Epic. Their loss. Or not. Whatever.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 05-09-2021 at 11:38 AM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  2. #1217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    I was just getting tired of the same old stories being told. The reason i fell in love with xmen was there was always something unexpected happening. I feel hickman has captured that and more. There are flaws i could get hung up on but honestly even the books i am not crazy about have things that are going on that i find interesting. The last few runs were just so incredibly dull for me. Plus, they have xmen legacy going so i feel people who dont like hickman run can just read that. If they dont like either than maybe just give it a couple years and come back to it. Its not like we are all going to enjoy every run all the time.
    X-men Legends is a good start but I would also like an X-Men forever 3 and X-Men Season 2 too. This new era could offer something for everyone if they really wanted to push this Moira story to the max.

  3. #1218
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    ...and Fall of X will be the endgame.
    It's the lack of patience that seems to have a lot of readers disappointed. The story clearly wasn't meant to be resolved in a matter of months...that's not how HX-Man writes...even moreso now that he's directing the entire direction. Their loss. Or not. Whatever.
    After Hickman the X-Men are going back to the mansion, because obv can’t actually allow anything to ever change post-Claremont. The twist will be that everyone has their own mansion - Nightcrawler will have a blue one, Colossus a silver one, et cetera.

  4. #1219
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    After Hickman the X-Men are going back to the mansion, because obv canít actually allow anything to ever change post-Claremont. The twist will be that everyone has their own mansion - Nightcrawler will have a blue one, Colossus a silver one, et cetera.
    X of Mansions: who will win to be the true mansion

  5. #1220
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Even if they do go back to the Mansion...it would not take anything away from what we're reading now. And more than likely the new writer after HiX-Man could come in and put his own interesting and engaging spin on that original status quo...or not. Nobody knows. Besides, that is a ways off and I prefer to be fully engaged in the present, not living for past glories or longing for a brighter future.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  6. #1221
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    X of Mansions: who will win to be the true mansion
    Okay, this is pretty funny.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  7. #1222
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    I feel dawn of x is just introducing all of these concepts and seems to me like reign of x is more about how it effects the different characters.
    The "Dawn" lasted too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    ...and Fall of X will be the endgame.
    It's the lack of patience that seems to have a lot of readers disappointed. The story clearly wasn't meant to be resolved in a matter of months...that's not how HX-Man writes...even moreso now that he's directing the entire Epic. Their loss. Or not. Whatever.
    We don't need to hurry to the end, but the beginning and middle should be interesting in their own way. I don't think there's a lack of patience at all, there's been so little momentum it's kinda funny.

    It's faulty thinking that anyone who has problems with the pacing wants the narrative resolved in a matter of months, really we just want actual interesting plots and some forwards progression beyond reminding the reader that there are things still happening behind the scenes.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  8. #1223
    Fantastic Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It's the lack of patience that seems to have a lot of readers disappointed. The story clearly wasn't meant to be resolved in a matter of months...that's not how HX-Man writes...even moreso now that he's directing the entire Epic. Their loss. Or not. Whatever.
    I love stories that aren’t resolved at once. But I want to be entertained on the way to the resolution. Hickman fails to entertain me. I am entertained by Hellions, X-Factor, Marauders and X-Force. I love SWORD, and I was really impressed by Way of X. I am mostly bored by Hickman’s X-Men.

    Hickman’s concepts intrigue me, but to me his characterization falls flat. The characters feel more like chess pieces, Hickman fails to make me care about them.
    Last edited by johnnysv75; 05-09-2021 at 12:09 PM.

  9. #1224
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    The "Dawn" lasted too long.
    These 'reign" "dawn" are so ill defined where it starts and where it ends.

    We don't need to hurry to the end, but the beginning and middle should be interesting in their own way. I don't think there's a lack of patience at all, there's been so little momentum it's kinda funny.

    It's faulty thinking that anyone who has problems with the pacing wants the narrative resolved in a matter of months, really we just want actual interesting plots and some forwards progression beyond reminding the reader that there are things still happening behind the scenes.
    We need to get some food between the main meals. There is enough story to work out instead of just loose one shots. Very little profress was done

  10. #1225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    This is a fantastic post, exactly where it belongs. I'm gonna reread what I've got as well, and I feel I'll come away largely with similar opinions to yours, both on the positives and negatives. Every single one of your criticisms is well thought-out and I can't think of any justification.
    Thanks - I'll be interested to see how you feel about everything after your re-read! Despite my criticisms, I did enjoy it more the second time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    I feel dawn of x is just introducing all of these concepts and seems to me like reign of x is more about how it effects the different characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    ...and Fall of X will be the endgame.
    It's the lack of patience that seems to have a lot of readers disappointed. The story clearly wasn't meant to be resolved in a matter of months...that's not how HX-Man writes...even moreso now that he's directing the entire direction. Their loss. Or not. Whatever.
    I know Hickman uses long-form story-telling and I've enjoyed a lot of his work in the past - including his runs on Avengers and Fantastic Four/Future Foundation. I can't speak for everyone but it's not a matter of patience for me; I don't mind a slower pace or an overarching story that takes time to develop, but I don't think that is an excuse for characters' actions to simply not make any sense or for much of the storytelling in the meantime to feel lacklustre (in my opinion). Impatience doesn't really account for any of the criticisms I listed. I can't reconcile the fact that we haven't spent any time looking at, for instance, why/how Archangel is okay with Apocalypse being pardoned for all his crimes but we did spend an issue reading about geriatric botanist terrorists who have never been mentioned again.

    If Reign of X does bring with it a more defined character focus that fills in some of these gaps, that's great - it'll still be a bit late for me as we've been asked to buy into so much already, but better late than never.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I agree with almost everything you wrote. I felt excitement at first, but now I am mostly bored with the overall story. I couldnít care less about Arakko, I want to know what Moira is up to, and I am also invested in the Mystique/Destiny storyline.
    I like several of the other X-titles (I think you will love SWORD!), but the main title is quite boring. I like several of Hickmanís concepts, even though I feel most would fit better in Avengers or Fantastic Four, but his actual stories are not told in a way I find interesting.
    But what puts me off most are the potentially xenophobic/supremacist views of several of the mutants on Krakoa. They feel like a cult. Even worse: a xenophobic cult. That bothers me a lot.

    I wouldnít agree that he uses powers in imaginative ways - under his pen, telepathy has become an advanced phone.

    I think Morrisonís run is more interesting and modern and has more interesting concepts.

    What I do love: Hickman has made the X-books into comic books that matter again. And for that I am forever grateful.
    I agree, the supremacy/cult vibes are very concerning. The first resurrection scene in House of X is one of the few parts I don't enjoy, and the undertones certainly become more pronounced as things roll on. As I said in my earlier post though, I completely agree that it's great that the X-books matter again and that there's such a diverse line available!

  11. #1226
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnysv75 View Post
    I love stories that aren’t resolved at once. But I want to be entertained on the way to the resolution. Hickman fails to entertain me. I am entertained by Hellions, X-Factor, Marauders and X-Force. I love SWORD, and I was really impressed by Way of X. I am mostly bored by Hickman’s X-Men.

    Hickman’s concepts intrigue me, but to me his characterization falls flat. The characters feel more like chess pieces, Hickman fails to make me care about them.
    Then...It's a good thing you and others like yourself who have issues with HiX-Man's writing have many other books by other writers to enjoy.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  12. #1227
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    Not sure if this is the right place for this but I thought it fit better here than starting a new thread!

    I'm in the middle of a re-read of the Hickman era to date. After my initial read-through - I trailed off sometime during X of Swords - I was a bit disappointed. However, I see a lot of excitement online and there were aspects of the new status quo that I really loved; plus, I've enjoyed a lot of Hickman's work before. I thought it was worth giving it another shot and so far, I actually feel more positive about it than I did initially. I decided not to bother with the titles I really didn't get along with the first time around, namely Excalibur, New Mutants, Fallen Angels, and Cable. I never tried Wolverine, Hellions, X-Factor Way of X or SWORD so I'll give them a go when I reach that point but right now I'm basing this on House of X, Powers of X, X-Men #1-7, Marauders #1-7, X-Force #1-7, X-Men/Fantastic Four, Giant-Size X-Men: Nightcrawler, and Giant-Size X-Men: Jean Grey and Emma Frost.

    The things I enjoy:

    • Regardless of your feelings about Hickman's run, it can't be denied that it's a truly fresh and innovative approach to the franchise.
    • I think House of X and Powers of X are awesome introductions to the new direction. They're some of the best X-comics that have been released in a while.
    • The expansive cast and writers that aren't afraid to lean on and develop more obscure characters. This stretches to the villains too - I'm glad to see the Children of the Vault back in play. I love the original arc where they're introduced and fight Rogue's ragtag squad.
    • The imaginative uses/developments of powers, Krakoan organic technology and the mutant social structure.
    • The variety of titles that are available. While they're not all my cup of tea, it's great to see the line as a whole thriving and so many teams and concepts being in play.
    • The (albeit too few) moments where characters question the complex morality of new aspects of mutant society, such as the resurrection protocols and the Crucible.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few elements that hinder my enjoyment.

    I think the main thing is that I just don't get why most of the characters are acting the way they are when it comes to the fundamentals of Krakoa. I've seen earlier comments in this thread about how we shouldn't presume to know what every character would do in every situation and I agree, but where they are acting in ways contrary to how we expect them to based on years of previous reading, aren't we owed some sort of explanation? Isn't it forgiving lazy or overly plot-focused writing to simply excuse this?

    For example, why did no one express any significant concerns about the amnesty? Why does Storm continue to have a problem with Emma Frost in the early issues of Marauders when she seems fairly happy to sit on the Quiet Council alongside the likes of Apocalypse and Sinister? Why is Jean so willing to adopt violent tactics in X-Force (something that isn't limited to her - see Storm stabbing an enemy in the eye right off the bat in Marauders? Are we really expected to believe that Scott and Jean would have an open relationship - something that just feels like self-indulgent fan fiction to me? Why are Kate and Emma suddenly best buddies (and on a side note, did Kate's dialogue as she was drowned by Sebastian Shaw really sound like something she would say)?

    None of our supposed heroes seem to have that much concern about the segregationist, potentially xenophobic/supremacist views that are seemingly becoming entrenched in Krakoan society. And when they're challenged on this - such as by Sue Storm in X-Men/Fantastic Four - they don't seem to have a good answer. The reason for this is because the writers seem to just use the characters as plot devices at pivotal moments. They need someone to belittle and antagonise the Fantastic Four so sure, Cyclops can do that. They need someone to make a morally grey decision to raise the stakes so sure, Beast can basically become a villain. They need a sassy voice on the Quiet Council so sure, Sinister can become a caricature.

    I'm not necessarily opposed to the 'whats' here...I just feel like we've skipped over the 'whys'.

    I find myself having to ignore these things to continue enjoying a lot of what I'm reading, which is easier to do when the story is solid...but too often things in the main title are too meandering. I also don't really have any interest in Arakko. I understand that Hickman can't just launch straight into the interesting stuff with Destiny, Mystique and Moira - but sometimes it feels like these threads have been forgotten completely, and worse, like they have been replaced with less interesting stories.

    There's enough I'm enjoying and enough promise for me to carry on for now, at least to revisit X of Swords. I just hope we start seeing some reasons behind all of this strange behaviour soon.
    Don't agree with everything and I'm a HUGE fan of some of the books you haven't tried out yet, but this was a very fun breakdown to read. Your criticisms completely make sense (see the point that I bolded because I FELT that) and nowhere throughout your analysis did you try to rain on the parade of people who are fully enjoying themselves (which is very appreciated).

  13. #1228
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    The "Dawn" lasted too long.



    We don't need to hurry to the end, but the beginning and middle should be interesting in their own way. I don't think there's a lack of patience at all, there's been so little momentum it's kinda funny.

    It's faulty thinking that anyone who has problems with the pacing wants the narrative resolved in a matter of months, really we just want actual interesting plots and some forwards progression beyond reminding the reader that there are things still happening behind the scenes.
    That's exactly what I'm getting...in the books I'm reading. And even in the ones I'm not. If that's not how you and others see it well...

    I don't think any of us who are thoroughly enjoying this run are completely blind to the many faults across the line...like some of the "Whys"...but it's more that I (we) choose to focus on the positives which for me far outway the negatives. I find appreciation in what it is...not what it was, nor what I think it could be, as both those options are irrelevant.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 05-09-2021 at 01:11 PM.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  14. #1229
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I agree with Agent Grayson, we know the how but we also need to know the whys, I think we are in the middle of the story and we will know in time how this began and why the X-men decided to change so much of their long held beliefs.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

  15. #1230
    Fantastic Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Then...It's a good thing you and others like yourself who have issues with HiX-Man's writing have many other books by other writers to enjoy.
    Yes, it is. I am just answering the question in this thread, if I am still interested in Hickman’s X-Men or not.

    I think he has great concepts and I am grateful that the X-books matter again, I just wish I liked his writing more.

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