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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    Big disagree here. Hickman has been pulling out the past like crazy. We are getting all sorts of characters we haven’t seen in decades. I disagree with most the hickman haters on this forum though. It is actually comical at this point. Like, let’s just say whatever we can to start a bandwagon belief on what hickman is doing wrong and people here are going to jump on it.
    To be fair, using old characters and concepts isn't the same thing as using them in-character or consistently. Certainly there are bound to be unfair or overwrought criticisms, but that doesn't categorize all of them.

    To be clear, I'm not saying that you're making that claim. I don't think anyone here wants this run disparaged baselessly - I've defended Morrison's run, which Hickman's is closely compared to, and I'm fully aware of it's many faults.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    Big disagree here. Hickman has been pulling out the past like crazy. We are getting all sorts of characters we haven’t seen in decades. I disagree with most the hickman haters on this forum though. It is actually comical at this point. Like, let’s just say whatever we can to start a bandwagon belief on what hickman is doing wrong and people here are going to jump on it.
    gonnagiveittoya said exactly what I think of this run:
    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    I definitely think that, even if the writing were exactly the same, if the name on the covers wasn't Hickman people would be much harsher on this run where the X-Men abandon unity with humanity, become confrontational with almost all their human allies, but totally forgiving their dangerous enemies and most notorious genocidal maniacs with get out of jail free cards, putting said maniacs at the head of their government, and becoming immortal ubermensch pod people who may or may not all be clones.

    At least I definitely I know I only went along with it because I know Hickmans a good writer.
    I am only going along with it because it’s Hickman, too. I’m not a huge Hickman fan, but for Marvel I think he’s batting about .500. I’m willing to sit in my seat through the game, unless around the 7th inning it is obviously a rout.

    His Avengers and Secret Wars were just okay. The ride was pretty fun. The ending was botched, though. Although the battles with other realities and how he did Namor feels pretty wrong to me, the real problem was the ending. Making Molecule Man, Reed, Sue and the kids into basically gods was an awfully stupid ending. Why even bring the Fantastic Four back after that? What kind of adventure can actual gods have? This is the problem with Slott’s Fantastic Four. It’s not Slott or his stories. It’s just impossible to have adventures with these characters now. Hickman broke them.

    Hickman’s run on the Fantastic Four, before Avengers and Secret Wars, was pretty good. I enjoyed it. I didn’t love it like some did. It was certainly the best FF in a while, but it wasn’t even as good as Byrne’s, let alone Lee’s and Kirby’s.

    Right now, I’m giving Hickman the benefit of the doubt that he’s going to have a conclusion to this at least as sensible as his FF run. If he doesn’t end X well, if everything is pretty much as we are seeing, then no, I will not be a fan of the HiXmen. Why would I be? Why would any X fan? The thing troubling me is Hickman really doesn’t have a lot of unexpected twists. He tends to just go bigger and bigger, but it basically feels like an outgrowth of where he started, with no really unexpected reveals. It concerns me as a fan that what we are seeing here are the X-Men, period. Having the X-Men getting a little independent of the Quiet Council gives me some cause for hope, though.
    Last edited by Brian B; 04-16-2021 at 07:45 AM.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I think it has more to do with the gratitude fans feel towards Hickman to have stopped with the cycles of repression / escape. He has made the mutants strong, powerful… Fans can identify again with the X-men proudly.

    In front of that, inconsistencies, personality changes, losses of ideal… don’t seem to matter much.
    Maybe but...were talking about one of the most fundamental ideas of the premise of the X-Men for the past 70 years getting tossed overnight: the idea of humans and mutants coexisting. And while it may have been built up/explained with Xavier, it doesn't explain why every single other mutant immediately went along with it, which I'm hoping will be addressed/play a part in the story instead of just "the X-Men dropped the dream because if they didn't the plot couldn't happen, and now the X-Men will never believe in it again"

    Like you have them on better terms with Sinister and Apocalypse than with their fellow, non-mutant heroes? With Storm randomly being a huge asshole with Wakanda in X of Swords and apparently forgetting she was ever a member of the Avengers in COTA. Hopefully the Hellfire Gala is the start of a correction on that front.
    Last edited by gonnagiveittoya; 04-16-2021 at 07:57 AM.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    While they’ve picked up a fair bit of sapien in their mix, the Inhumans derive from Neanderthal. They are a more legit separate species than mutants are from baseline humans
    Inhumans are from cro-magnons which are homo sapiens. Cro-magnon is just another word for early Europeans, which we understand at this point to be migrants from Africa. While there was a little interbreeding between neandrathals and cro-magnons, cro-magnons are as human, as homo sapien, as you and I. So, the Inhumans are only different from homo sapiens in whatever the Terrigen Mist and the Kree did to them.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    gonnagiveittoya said exactly what I think of this run:

    I am only going along with it because itís Hickman, too. Iím not a huge Hickman fan, but for Marvel I think heís batting about .500. Iím willing to sit in my seat through the game, unless around the 7th inning it is obviously a rout.

    His Avengers and Secret Wars were just okay. The ride was pretty fun. The ending was botched, though. Although the battles with other realities and how he did Namor feels pretty wrong to me, the real problem was the ending. Making Molecule Man, Reed, Sue and the kids into basically gods was an awfully stupid ending. Why even bring the Fantastic Four back after that? What kind of adventure can actual gods have? This is the problem with Slottís Fantastic Four. Itís not Slott or his stories. Itís just impossible to have adventures with these characters now. Hickman broke them.

    Hickmanís run on the Fantastic Four, before Avengers and Secret Wars, was pretty good. I enjoyed it. I didnít love it like some did. It was certainly the best FF in a while, but it wasnít even as good as Byrneís, let alone Leeís and Kirbyís.

    Right now, Iím giving Hickman the benefit of the doubt that heís going to have a conclusion to this at least as sensible as his FF run. If he doesnít end X well, if everything is pretty much as we are seeing, then no, I will not be a fan of the HiXmen. Why would I be? Why would any X fan? The thing troubling me is Hickman really doesnít have a lot of unexpected twists. He tends to just go bigger and bigger, but it basically feels like an outgrowth of where he started, with no really unexpected reveals. It concerns me as a fan that what we are seeing here are the X-Men, period. Having the X-Men getting a little independent of the Quiet Council gives me some cause for hope, though.
    That is a huge problem for writers, FF went out there creating entire universes, not world but Universe. They really became gods and anow they are back at Baxter street? why? it really doesnt feel right

    I think That Hickman with his name has fans being excited over nothing and having giant patience with his story that moves little to nothing the Krakoa story.

    I know that many jumped out are ready to jump out because he is not delivering things promised on HoxPox

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Maybe but...were talking about one of the most fundamental ideas of the premise of the X-Men for the past 70 years getting tossed overnight: the idea of humans and mutants coexisting. And while it may have been built up/explained with Xavier, it doesn't explain why every single other mutant immediately went along with it, which I'm hoping will be addressed/play a part in the story instead of just "the X-Men dropped the dream because if they didn't the plot couldn't happen, and now the X-Men will never believe in it again"

    Like you have them on better terms with Sinister and Apocalypse than with their fellow, non-mutant heroes? With Storm randomly being a huge asshole with Wakanda in X of Swords and apparently forgetting she was ever a member of the Avengers in COTA. Hopefully the Hellfire Gala is the start of a correction on that front.
    Yeah, are we supposed to pretend this is fine or justified? Good grief, Cyclops and his X-Men were constantly criticized during the Decimation era despite an immediate in-universe threat, this era has a problem coming in the distant future and mutants are in great shape, why all this inconsistent behavior?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  7. #487
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    I think one fundamental issue is that, unless the Mouse decrees otherwise, the static nature of the genre and the “world outside your window” means that no Earth-bound part of Marvel gets to fundamentally move forward; and everyone whose been around long enough knows it

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    I think one fundamental issue is that, unless the Mouse decrees otherwise, the static nature of the genre and the “world outside your window” means that no Earth-bound part of Marvel gets to fundamentally move forward; and everyone whose been around long enough knows it
    Exactly, especially since in this instance it would basically require every Marvel book operate on the whims of the X-Men books, which is never going to happen

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Exactly, especially since in this instance it would basically require every Marvel book operate on the whims of the X-Men books, which is never going to happen
    Why would it, it never did before. Krakoa can happen exactly how it is with the x-line being a line. The only thing is with more books people who prefer the mutants won't have to get avengers or spiderman etc. If mutants being killed left and right didn't take over the books of heroes, even when in a shared universe a gas was killing an entire species. I don't see how mutants living on an island will.

    Well i guess they can't do Avs X or i vs X or Enter phoenix at a whim. So that changes.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  10. #490
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    with that X-Men #01 reveal...I'm even more excited now.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Well i guess they can't do Avs X or i vs X or Enter phoenix at a whim. So that changes.
    I dunno, AvX seems more logical than ever now that the X-Men treat the Avengers canonically worse than almost all their longstanding villains.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    I dunno, AvX seems more logical than ever now that the X-Men treat the Avengers canonically worse than almost all their longstanding villains.
    Haven't you noticed how mutants have slowly been being pulled from all the main MU books and are being put on Krakoa for the x line to explore. It's not bad if a company can have two big successful lines.

    Though i do expect there will be a consolidation on the main line. Avengers, Spiderman, FF etc and less solos.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Exactly, especially since in this instance it would basically require every Marvel book operate on the whims of the X-Men books, which is never going to happen
    It's the same for FF, they have to keep them from changing completely the world with new tech.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Haven't you noticed how mutants have slowly been being pulled from all the main MU books and are being put on Krakoa for the x line to explore. It's not bad if a company can have two big successful lines.

    Though i do expect there will be a consolidation on the main line. Avengers, Spiderman, FF etc and less solos.
    Yeah my favorite thing about the X-Men is their dream of ethnonationalism, separatism, and isolationist beliefs. Krakoa First!

    Hopefully this new book is a reversal from all that the past two years.
    Last edited by gonnagiveittoya; 04-17-2021 at 07:43 AM.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Yeah my favorite thing about the X-Men is their dream of ethnonationalism, separatism, and isolationism. Krakoa First!
    To that i would say do you open the doors to your house and let everybody come in? because America doesn't, I don't.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

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