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  1. #1171
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    You need to get a clue.

    The proof is all there.
    Only if the clue is 10% of what a clue is. It's like I want proof and people offer me a crazy conspiracy theory that I have to imagine 90% of what isn't on page.
    Last edited by Rang10; 05-08-2021 at 09:12 AM.

  2. #1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Hickman reset his run on Avengers, nobody remembers secret wars besides Doom and FF.

    It's a hue real possibility, specially that the run has failed outiside of the Twitter echo-chamber
    I didn’t like Hickman’s Avengers or Secret Wars. The ending to me was crud. Hickman’s FF, before Secret Wars, was good, though. If Hickman were hitting in MLB, he’d be a massive slugger with that .500 average. That’s why I’m not throwing in the towel on HiXmen, well that and HiXmen IS entertaining.

  3. #1173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    So, my take on the love triange of scott/jean/logan is a bit different. I see it as more an evolved form of swingers. Its not so much a kink for them as it is an evolution of their feelings. Scott and jean have shared a psychic rapport for years. They have basically lived in each other’s heads for decades. You can imagine all the awkward thoughts that get through in this situation. All of that just becomes normal for them. Scott knows how she feels about logan. It bothered him for a time but now he is over it. Him and logan had their falling out in schism and then some. Now, they respect each other on a level that normal people could not even hope to have. At the end of the day, scott knows jean loves him and would do anything to be with him. Instead of making her choose between him and logan, to which he knows he will be the victor, he allows her and logan to share that same love. I feel its more like the greek gods than a normal human relationship. They have these powers and are able to share these extraordinary experiences with one another and have just evolved in such a way to accept it as who they are rather than let themselves be boxed in by human standards on how they should be. Maybe that sounds a bit preachy or maybe some people just don’t want to accept that they can have that kind of relationship. Which is fine. Its just how i see it and so far the comics haven’t given me any reason to think otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the “evolved” state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. I’m going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here — the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...

    It really is not unlike Moore’s and Gaiman’s Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?
    The more I think about this, the more it REALLY makes sense and kinda works. You just have to let go of the bourgie worldview a bit and see the X-Men as the god-like entities they are.

    (Sorry — didn’t mean to quote myself, fat-fingered the edit button and started another post.)
    Last edited by Brian B; 05-08-2021 at 09:16 AM.

  4. #1174
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The more I think about this, the more it REALLY makes sense and kinda works. You just have to let go of the bourgie world view a bit and see the X-Men as the god-like entities they are.
    That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad

  5. #1175
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    That is a fascinating viewpoint. In other words, they are at the ďevolvedĒ state all the mutants keep talking about on Krakoa. Iím going to have to think on this hard, instead of getting into the soap-opera-ness of it. You might be onto something here ó the mutants literally are evolved, in many ways. Hmm...

    It really is not unlike Mooreís and Gaimanís Miracleman/Marvelman, is it?
    Ha! Thanks for the compliment! And yeah, thatís pretty much how i view it. The whole idea of krakoa is about mutants having a safe space to evolve without the fear of persecution so yeah i feel things like this are bound to happen in some form or fashion. I think some of it is left ambiguous for us to be able to make our own interpretations as well. I do strongly feel it is more than just a sexual fetish and it is just 3 adults having this bond that is strictly unique to their experience.

  6. #1176
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad
    It is definitely not for everyone. I would probably like it a lot less if it was. I always tend to gravitate towards things that rock the boat. Otherwise, i find myself not being very stimulated intellectually.

  7. #1177
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    It is definitely not for everyone. I would probably like it a lot less if it was. I always tend to gravitate towards things that rock the boat. Otherwise, i find myself not being very stimulated intellectually.
    I need things to be written well, character being in character. Hickman has been lacking on these two fronts, his x-men is scattered that barely follow his own ideas. Lots of question that are no answered

    I want to read x-men not Inhumans
    Last edited by Rang10; 05-08-2021 at 09:20 AM.

  8. #1178
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    As Iíve said many times, I am withholding a final judgement based on Hickmanís record, and some concepts heís thrown out there, particularly with the Orchis-related plots.

    I donít hate HiXmen, yet, and some parts I have enjoyed. I think the run is definitely going much better than Morrisonís, which to me is bottom of the barrel. I donít think Morrison knew or understood the characters at all. Hickman does understand the characters, I think, but he has this tendency to just turn them all into dei ex machina and worse, into flat-out MacGuffins. He just bulldozes through to get the story where he wants. Look at how Hickman did Namor and TíChalla. And, Iíll say it until Iím blue in the face, the HiXmen in general have not been boring. Well, maybe X of Swords was boring, but the other books and stories within the stories have not been boring.

    I do think this could be leading into Moira XI, which would be the 616. I could see this all going there in some grand plan of Hickmanís.
    It's funny, because I'm fully aware of and accepting of the flaws of Morrison's run. You could name one and I'd probably agree it's bad, but I still like New X-Men.

    I don't know, I am of the strong belief that X-Men, being written by the guy himself, should have been the most interesting book and it hasn't been.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #1179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad
    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    It is definitely not for everyone. I would probably like it a lot less if it was. I always tend to gravitate towards things that rock the boat. Otherwise, i find myself not being very stimulated intellectually.
    Rang10, the HiXmen could end up at least partially a tale of hubris. Krakoa the nation-state and society may not turn out so well. Way of X seems to hint at this.
    Last edited by Brian B; 05-08-2021 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #1180
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    So, my take on the love triange of scott/jean/logan is a bit different. I see it as more an evolved form of swingers. Its not so much a kink for them as it is an evolution of their feelings. Scott and jean have shared a psychic rapport for years. They have basically lived in each otherís heads for decades. You can imagine all the awkward thoughts that get through in this situation. All of that just becomes normal for them. Scott knows how she feels about logan. It bothered him for a time but now he is over it. Him and logan had their falling out in schism and then some. Now, they respect each other on a level that normal people could not even hope to have. At the end of the day, scott knows jean loves him and would do anything to be with him. Instead of making her choose between him and logan, to which he knows he will be the victor, he allows her and logan to share that same love. I feel its more like the greek gods than a normal human relationship. They have these powers and are able to share these extraordinary experiences with one another and have just evolved in such a way to accept it as who they are rather than let themselves be boxed in by human standards on how they should be. Maybe that sounds a bit preachy or maybe some people just donít want to accept that they can have that kind of relationship. Which is fine. Its just how i see it and so far the comics havenít given me any reason to think otherwise.
    I see what you're saying, I've heard this argument, but I just don't think it's a good thing. These characters shouldn't be leaving their humanity behind, and there's nothing in their history to support the idea that they would go in this direction anyway. Besides, why use this method to explore that idea?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  11. #1181
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Hickman reset his run on Avengers, nobody remembers secret wars besides Doom and FF.

    It's a hue real possibility, specially that the run has failed outiside of the Twitter echo-chamber
    I hope so. We can keep some of the more interesting ideas and general approach to using characters, I suppose, but I have not liked this era as a whole so far.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  12. #1182
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    I see what you're saying, I've heard this argument, but I just don't think it's a good thing. These characters shouldn't be leaving their humanity behind, and there's nothing in their history to support the idea that they would go in this direction anyway. Besides, why use this method to explore that idea?
    It is not abandoning their humanity though. It is further exploring it. When i say human standards i mean human judgments. This is far from their humanity.

  13. #1183
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    It is not abandoning their humanity though. It is further exploring it. When i say human standards i mean human judgments. This is far from their humanity.
    But the change came from an outside force, not from a natural progression of their own thoughts or feelings. If not for Krakoa, this wouldn't be happening, therefore they are leaving that aspect of their humanity behind.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  14. #1184
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    But the change came from an outside force, not from a natural progression of their own thoughts or feelings. If not for Krakoa, this wouldn't be happening, therefore they are leaving that aspect of their humanity behind.
    Why would it not happen outside of krakoa? I am not following this train of thought.

  15. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    That is a misinterpretation of x-men, they aren't gods. They are very human like, that is why Hickman run is so bad
    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    I need things to be written well, character being in character. Hickman has been lacking on these two fronts, his x-men is scattered that barely follow his own ideas. Lots of question that are no answered

    I want to read x-men not Inhumans
    Fully agree with you here.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

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