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  1. #1201
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I just thought about something else good about the HiXmen.

    There is NOTHING else happening even half as interesting in any of the other Marvel Comics titles as is happening in the X titles right now. The X-Men are IT, right now. They are top dog at Marvel Comics, no matter the sales numbers. I think the only reason some of the X titles may not be selling better is the sheer number of them, splitting up the readership a bit. If Marvel wants to sell more X books, they may need to slim down the line.
    I was just getting tired of the same old stories being told. The reason i fell in love with xmen was there was always something unexpected happening. I feel hickman has captured that and more. There are flaws i could get hung up on but honestly even the books i am not crazy about have things that are going on that i find interesting. The last few runs were just so incredibly dull for me. Plus, they have xmen legacy going so i feel people who dont like hickman run can just read that. If they dont like either than maybe just give it a couple years and come back to it. Its not like we are all going to enjoy every run all the time.

  2. #1202
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I just thought about something else good about the HiXmen.

    There is NOTHING else happening even half as interesting in any of the other Marvel Comics titles as is happening in the X titles right now. The X-Men are IT, right now. They are top dog at Marvel Comics, no matter the sales numbers. I think the only reason some of the X titles may not be selling better is the sheer number of them, splitting up the readership a bit. If Marvel wants to sell more X books, they may need to slim down the line.

    With Marvel owning the X IP lock, stock and barrel, again, including movie rights, the dark days of Ike Perlmutter and his Inhumans are behind us.
    Less Books doesnt mean more people will buy them. I think that having a strong flagship, would bring stronger sales.
    I think tha majority of books not being that interesting is a bigger factor.

    Well it is subjective. I'm liking heroes reborn, Thor, Iron Fist, Venom, daredevil are doing.

  3. #1203
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    This sort of thinking goes against the very grain of storytelling. We are only given the information that is relevant to the story. As readers, we are not meant to know every detail of every facet of every character. The story serves as the means to which we are introduced to these things and we are able to extrapolate what the rest could possibly mean. This is true with any story. What makes comics different is that there is continuity involved along with writers and other artists changing hands every so often. To strictly say, this person would never, under any circumstance, do this thing... is a detriment to the character and any writer who comes after. Not only this, but you are also speaking subjectively. I could argue that it was always leading to this. We would both be wrong. It is a matter of perspective and in this instance, it was the perspective of hickman on how he thought their relationship should evolve. It is fine if you or others do not like it. I am positive he had that in mind when he decided on going there with it. But to say that it is in the realm of impossibility is pretentious, at best.
    Well...exactatiously.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  4. #1204
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    I was just getting tired of the same old stories being told. The reason i fell in love with xmen was there was always something unexpected happening. I feel hickman has captured that and more. There are flaws i could get hung up on but honestly even the books i am not crazy about have things that are going on that i find interesting. The last few runs were just so incredibly dull for me. Plus, they have xmen legacy going so i feel people who dont like hickman run can just read that. If they dont like either than maybe just give it a couple years and come back to it. Its not like we are all going to enjoy every run all the time.
    And more truths...you is on fiyah there, Cane_D.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  5. #1205
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    And more truths...you is on fiyah there, Cane_D.
    Thnx! Glad to know some people out there enjoy the current xmen as much as me!

  6. #1206
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    Thnx! Glad to know some people out there enjoy the current xmen as much as me!
    I really think y'all are in the majority, in these forums at least.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  7. #1207
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Less Books doesnt mean more people will buy them. I think that having a strong flagship, would bring stronger sales.
    I think tha majority of books not being that interesting is a bigger factor.

    Well it is subjective. I'm liking heroes reborn, Thor, Iron Fist, Venom, daredevil are doing.
    Less books would mean more sales per book generally, I agree.

    I think Heroes Reborn is an interesting idea, it's just too bad that Marvel won't cool it with the events (making [I]this/I] event feel superfluous) and that Jason Aaron is writing it. Daredevil seems good, not sure about the rest.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  8. #1208
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I just thought about something else good about the HiXmen.

    There is NOTHING else happening even half as interesting in any of the other Marvel Comics titles as is happening in the X titles right now. The X-Men are IT, right now. They are top dog at Marvel Comics, no matter the sales numbers. I think the only reason some of the X titles may not be selling better is the sheer number of them, splitting up the readership a bit. If Marvel wants to sell more X books, they may need to slim down the line.

    With Marvel owning the X IP lock, stock and barrel, again, including movie rights, the dark days of Ike Perlmutter and his Inhumans are behind us.
    This is true, I can fully acknowledge this even if I don't like where the X-Books are at right now.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #1209

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    The less books = better sales on the remaining books has never been a particularly accurate metric in that there's no real way to tell if one books performance is hurting others. Too many books can sometimes burn out, sure, but that's usually also involving creative issues.

  10. #1210
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    The less books = better sales on the remaining books has never been a particularly accurate metric in that there's no real way to tell if one books performance is hurting others. Too many books can sometimes burn out, sure, but that's usually also involving creative issues.
    Having too many can make harder to decide what to read, but having a flagship is the starting point. Everyone that want to get into x-men world gonna try x-men and/or uncanny x-men.
    They are the primer books. What happened is that x-men under Hickman hasn't been very engaging.

  11. #1211
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cane_danko View Post
    Thnx! Glad to know some people out there enjoy the current xmen as much as me!
    Yupp.
    There are more of us in here and elsewhere...it's just that we are usually drowned out by the pervasive and constant negativity.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  12. #1212

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    Not sure if this is the right place for this but I thought it fit better here than starting a new thread!

    I'm in the middle of a re-read of the Hickman era to date. After my initial read-through - I trailed off sometime during X of Swords - I was a bit disappointed. However, I see a lot of excitement online and there were aspects of the new status quo that I really loved; plus, I've enjoyed a lot of Hickman's work before. I thought it was worth giving it another shot and so far, I actually feel more positive about it than I did initially. I decided not to bother with the titles I really didn't get along with the first time around, namely Excalibur, New Mutants, Fallen Angels, and Cable. I never tried Wolverine, Hellions, X-Factor Way of X or SWORD so I'll give them a go when I reach that point but right now I'm basing this on House of X, Powers of X, X-Men #1-7, Marauders #1-7, X-Force #1-7, X-Men/Fantastic Four, Giant-Size X-Men: Nightcrawler, and Giant-Size X-Men: Jean Grey and Emma Frost.

    The things I enjoy:

    • Regardless of your feelings about Hickman's run, it can't be denied that it's a truly fresh and innovative approach to the franchise.
    • I think House of X and Powers of X are awesome introductions to the new direction. They're some of the best X-comics that have been released in a while.
    • The expansive cast and writers that aren't afraid to lean on and develop more obscure characters. This stretches to the villains too - I'm glad to see the Children of the Vault back in play. I love the original arc where they're introduced and fight Rogue's ragtag squad.
    • The imaginative uses/developments of powers, Krakoan organic technology and the mutant social structure.
    • The variety of titles that are available. While they're not all my cup of tea, it's great to see the line as a whole thriving and so many teams and concepts being in play.
    • The (albeit too few) moments where characters question the complex morality of new aspects of mutant society, such as the resurrection protocols and the Crucible.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few elements that hinder my enjoyment.

    I think the main thing is that I just don't get why most of the characters are acting the way they are when it comes to the fundamentals of Krakoa. I've seen earlier comments in this thread about how we shouldn't presume to know what every character would do in every situation and I agree, but where they are acting in ways contrary to how we expect them to based on years of previous reading, aren't we owed some sort of explanation? Isn't it forgiving lazy or overly plot-focused writing to simply excuse this?

    For example, why did no one express any significant concerns about the amnesty? Why does Storm continue to have a problem with Emma Frost in the early issues of Marauders when she seems fairly happy to sit on the Quiet Council alongside the likes of Apocalypse and Sinister? Why is Jean so willing to adopt violent tactics in X-Force (something that isn't limited to her - see Storm stabbing an enemy in the eye right off the bat in Marauders? Are we really expected to believe that Scott and Jean would have an open relationship - something that just feels like self-indulgent fan fiction to me? Why are Kate and Emma suddenly best buddies (and on a side note, did Kate's dialogue as she was drowned by Sebastian Shaw really sound like something she would say)?

    None of our supposed heroes seem to have that much concern about the segregationist, potentially xenophobic/supremacist views that are seemingly becoming entrenched in Krakoan society. And when they're challenged on this - such as by Sue Storm in X-Men/Fantastic Four - they don't seem to have a good answer. The reason for this is because the writers seem to just use the characters as plot devices at pivotal moments. They need someone to belittle and antagonise the Fantastic Four so sure, Cyclops can do that. They need someone to make a morally grey decision to raise the stakes so sure, Beast can basically become a villain. They need a sassy voice on the Quiet Council so sure, Sinister can become a caricature.

    I'm not necessarily opposed to the 'whats' here...I just feel like we've skipped over the 'whys'.

    I find myself having to ignore these things to continue enjoying a lot of what I'm reading, which is easier to do when the story is solid...but too often things in the main title are too meandering. I also don't really have any interest in Arakko. I understand that Hickman can't just launch straight into the interesting stuff with Destiny, Mystique and Moira - but sometimes it feels like these threads have been forgotten completely, and worse, like they have been replaced with less interesting stories.

    There's enough I'm enjoying and enough promise for me to carry on for now, at least to revisit X of Swords. I just hope we start seeing some reasons behind all of this strange behaviour soon.

  13. #1213
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    Not sure if this is the right place for this but I thought it fit better here than starting a new thread!

    I'm in the middle of a re-read of the Hickman era to date. After my initial read-through - I trailed off sometime during X of Swords - I was a bit disappointed. However, I see a lot of excitement online and there were aspects of the new status quo that I really loved; plus, I've enjoyed a lot of Hickman's work before. I thought it was worth giving it another shot and so far, I actually feel more positive about it than I did initially. I decided not to bother with the titles I really didn't get along with the first time around, namely Excalibur, New Mutants, Fallen Angels, and Cable. I never tried Wolverine, Hellions, X-Factor Way of X or SWORD so I'll give them a go when I reach that point but right now I'm basing this on House of X, Powers of X, X-Men #1-7, Marauders #1-7, X-Force #1-7, X-Men/Fantastic Four, Giant-Size X-Men: Nightcrawler, and Giant-Size X-Men: Jean Grey and Emma Frost.

    The things I enjoy:

    • Regardless of your feelings about Hickman's run, it can't be denied that it's a truly fresh and innovative approach to the franchise.
    • I think House of X and Powers of X are awesome introductions to the new direction. They're some of the best X-comics that have been released in a while.
    • The expansive cast and writers that aren't afraid to lean on and develop more obscure characters. This stretches to the villains too - I'm glad to see the Children of the Vault back in play. I love the original arc where they're introduced and fight Rogue's ragtag squad.
    • The imaginative uses/developments of powers, Krakoan organic technology and the mutant social structure.
    • The variety of titles that are available. While they're not all my cup of tea, it's great to see the line as a whole thriving and so many teams and concepts being in play.
    • The (albeit too few) moments where characters question the complex morality of new aspects of mutant society, such as the resurrection protocols and the Crucible.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few elements that hinder my enjoyment.

    I think the main thing is that I just don't get why most of the characters are acting the way they are when it comes to the fundamentals of Krakoa. I've seen earlier comments in this thread about how we shouldn't presume to know what every character would do in every situation and I agree, but where they are acting in ways contrary to how we expect them to based on years of previous reading, aren't we owed some sort of explanation? Isn't it forgiving lazy or overly plot-focused writing to simply excuse this?

    For example, why did no one express any significant concerns about the amnesty? Why does Storm continue to have a problem with Emma Frost in the early issues of Marauders when she seems fairly happy to sit on the Quiet Council alongside the likes of Apocalypse and Sinister? Why is Jean so willing to adopt violent tactics in X-Force (something that isn't limited to her - see Storm stabbing an enemy in the eye right off the bat in Marauders? Are we really expected to believe that Scott and Jean would have an open relationship - something that just feels like self-indulgent fan fiction to me? Why are Kate and Emma suddenly best buddies (and on a side note, did Kate's dialogue as she was drowned by Sebastian Shaw really sound like something she would say)?

    None of our supposed heroes seem to have that much concern about the segregationist, potentially xenophobic/supremacist views that are seemingly becoming entrenched in Krakoan society. And when they're challenged on this - such as by Sue Storm in X-Men/Fantastic Four - they don't seem to have a good answer. The reason for this is because the writers seem to just use the characters as plot devices at pivotal moments. They need someone to belittle and antagonise the Fantastic Four so sure, Cyclops can do that. They need someone to make a morally grey decision to raise the stakes so sure, Beast can basically become a villain. They need a sassy voice on the Quiet Council so sure, Sinister can become a caricature.

    I'm not necessarily opposed to the 'whats' here...I just feel like we've skipped over the 'whys'.

    I find myself having to ignore these things to continue enjoying a lot of what I'm reading, which is easier to do when the story is solid...but too often things in the main title are too meandering. I also don't really have any interest in Arakko. I understand that Hickman can't just launch straight into the interesting stuff with Destiny, Mystique and Moira - but sometimes it feels like these threads have been forgotten completely, and worse, like they have been replaced with less interesting stories.

    There's enough I'm enjoying and enough promise for me to carry on for now, at least to revisit X of Swords. I just hope we start seeing some reasons behind all of this strange behaviour soon.
    This is a fantastic post, exactly where it belongs. I'm gonna reread what I've got as well, and I feel I'll come away largely with similar opinions to yours, both on the positives and negatives. Every single one of your criticisms is well thought-out and I can't think of any justification.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  14. #1214
    Spectacular Member Cane_danko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    Not sure if this is the right place for this but I thought it fit better here than starting a new thread!

    I'm in the middle of a re-read of the Hickman era to date. After my initial read-through - I trailed off sometime during X of Swords - I was a bit disappointed. However, I see a lot of excitement online and there were aspects of the new status quo that I really loved; plus, I've enjoyed a lot of Hickman's work before. I thought it was worth giving it another shot and so far, I actually feel more positive about it than I did initially. I decided not to bother with the titles I really didn't get along with the first time around, namely Excalibur, New Mutants, Fallen Angels, and Cable. I never tried Wolverine, Hellions, X-Factor Way of X or SWORD so I'll give them a go when I reach that point but right now I'm basing this on House of X, Powers of X, X-Men #1-7, Marauders #1-7, X-Force #1-7, X-Men/Fantastic Four, Giant-Size X-Men: Nightcrawler, and Giant-Size X-Men: Jean Grey and Emma Frost.

    The things I enjoy:

    • Regardless of your feelings about Hickman's run, it can't be denied that it's a truly fresh and innovative approach to the franchise.
    • I think House of X and Powers of X are awesome introductions to the new direction. They're some of the best X-comics that have been released in a while.
    • The expansive cast and writers that aren't afraid to lean on and develop more obscure characters. This stretches to the villains too - I'm glad to see the Children of the Vault back in play. I love the original arc where they're introduced and fight Rogue's ragtag squad.
    • The imaginative uses/developments of powers, Krakoan organic technology and the mutant social structure.
    • The variety of titles that are available. While they're not all my cup of tea, it's great to see the line as a whole thriving and so many teams and concepts being in play.
    • The (albeit too few) moments where characters question the complex morality of new aspects of mutant society, such as the resurrection protocols and the Crucible.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few elements that hinder my enjoyment.

    I think the main thing is that I just don't get why most of the characters are acting the way they are when it comes to the fundamentals of Krakoa. I've seen earlier comments in this thread about how we shouldn't presume to know what every character would do in every situation and I agree, but where they are acting in ways contrary to how we expect them to based on years of previous reading, aren't we owed some sort of explanation? Isn't it forgiving lazy or overly plot-focused writing to simply excuse this?

    For example, why did no one express any significant concerns about the amnesty? Why does Storm continue to have a problem with Emma Frost in the early issues of Marauders when she seems fairly happy to sit on the Quiet Council alongside the likes of Apocalypse and Sinister? Why is Jean so willing to adopt violent tactics in X-Force (something that isn't limited to her - see Storm stabbing an enemy in the eye right off the bat in Marauders? Are we really expected to believe that Scott and Jean would have an open relationship - something that just feels like self-indulgent fan fiction to me? Why are Kate and Emma suddenly best buddies (and on a side note, did Kate's dialogue as she was drowned by Sebastian Shaw really sound like something she would say)?

    None of our supposed heroes seem to have that much concern about the segregationist, potentially xenophobic/supremacist views that are seemingly becoming entrenched in Krakoan society. And when they're challenged on this - such as by Sue Storm in X-Men/Fantastic Four - they don't seem to have a good answer. The reason for this is because the writers seem to just use the characters as plot devices at pivotal moments. They need someone to belittle and antagonise the Fantastic Four so sure, Cyclops can do that. They need someone to make a morally grey decision to raise the stakes so sure, Beast can basically become a villain. They need a sassy voice on the Quiet Council so sure, Sinister can become a caricature.

    I'm not necessarily opposed to the 'whats' here...I just feel like we've skipped over the 'whys'.

    I find myself having to ignore these things to continue enjoying a lot of what I'm reading, which is easier to do when the story is solid...but too often things in the main title are too meandering. I also don't really have any interest in Arakko. I understand that Hickman can't just launch straight into the interesting stuff with Destiny, Mystique and Moira - but sometimes it feels like these threads have been forgotten completely, and worse, like they have been replaced with less interesting stories.

    There's enough I'm enjoying and enough promise for me to carry on for now, at least to revisit X of Swords. I just hope we start seeing some reasons behind all of this strange behaviour soon.
    I feel dawn of x is just introducing all of these concepts and seems to me like reign of x is more about how it effects the different characters.

  15. #1215
    Fantastic Member johnnysv75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    Not sure if this is the right place for this but I thought it fit better here than starting a new thread!
    I agree with almost everything you wrote. I felt excitement at first, but now I am mostly bored with the overall story. I couldn’t care less about Arakko, I want to know what Moira is up to, and I am also invested in the Mystique/Destiny storyline.
    I like several of the other X-titles (I think you will love SWORD!), but the main title is quite boring. I like several of Hickman’s concepts, even though I feel most would fit better in Avengers or Fantastic Four, but his actual stories are not told in a way I find interesting.
    But what puts me off most are the potentially xenophobic/supremacist views of several of the mutants on Krakoa. They feel like a cult. Even worse: a xenophobic cult. That bothers me a lot.

    I wouldn’t agree that he uses powers in imaginative ways - under his pen, telepathy has become an advanced phone.

    I think Morrison’s run is more interesting and modern and has more interesting concepts.

    What I do love: Hickman has made the X-books into comic books that matter again. And for that I am forever grateful.
    Last edited by johnnysv75; 05-09-2021 at 10:18 AM.

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