What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[Rang10]

I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.

Emma is canon therapist certified and I guess Jean went to Psychology college. Jean helped Gentle overcome his trauma

[Havok83]

Emma is canon therapist certified and I guess Jean went to Psychology college. Jean helped Gentle overcome his trauma

She also helped Betsy with hers. At leas one of the data pages talked about the TP working to help the resurrected assimilate but I cant recall where that was from

[BroHomo]

Again they can't call themselves "gods" & .? when their getting offed by regular humans whom are ants when compared to gods, some puny gods 8f that's the case, in particular 1 of their elite omega levels "meant to be protected at all cost" stays getting owned by humans that was a clown quote from Mags.

I reeeeally don't think he was being totally earnest. Not sure why every body do BH about it. Humans worship athletes/celebrities who either sing/act better then general population or in the case of athletes run, jump, etc better than most. Many mutants surpass the avg human in physicality alone + many have Abilities on par with bring ancient humans worshipped. Considering this was the Mutants 'coming out' There was A need to let huMans know what DaFuq was up.
Also Godhood doesn't mean you can't get bested by anyone (why would Thor need rest of Avengers)?or that lowly humans can't stand against you.
Storm beat Wonder Woman and Thor...2Gods
Jesus was killed by reg humans.
One aspect Most God's share...the ability to transcend Death. Which the Mutants can do sooo...

It was started by a sentient mind controlling bacteria from the dawn of time.

Yeah SuBlime set everything in motion but it was humanity's barbarity that made the Weapons+ program what it is....

Didn't Mister Sinister perform leathal experiments on mutants ever since the 1800's?

Though talking about him. I'm not sure if it predates or happend somewhat after Weapon Plus started, but there was also the Black Womb project during WWII, which involved researching mutants and involved Amanda Mueller, Mister Sinister, Destiny and Cain Marko's and Charles Xavier's fathers.

Though if we want to go further back regarding mutants and base humans doing horrible things to one another, there are the wars Apocalypse waged and what ever Selene was up to. Plus it seems there was always a coin toss about ancient mutants on what ever they would become worshiped as gods or killed as monsters (i guess based on their appearance and powers as per usual).

Ehhh the practice of abandoning 'strange' kids at birth is as old as human civilization. Even some folks on here would have a hard time blaming the Mutant babies. Apocalypse was a happy and generous kid but his survival of the fittest idealogy was beat into by his surrogate human family then enraged further by Kang and the humans who were in charge of ancient Egypt. Soooo shots fired

Either way. There were conflicts, heroics and villainy going on involving mutants for a long time in the Marvel universe. So yes, all that Magneto did was to drag it into the modern day spotlight, instead of leaving the conflict a shadow society type invisible war.

Huh ??Trask had giant purple robots....it woulda been exposed either way

With additional retcons of mutant agression and agression against mutants dating back further and further back in history, it becomes really difficult to tell who has thrown the first stone.

Uh Zuut? What did Mutants do to humans to deserve Sentinels? Weapons+? Neverland Ranvhy? Genosha? M-Day?

Personally, I would of liked him being pulled up on that comment or for him just not to have made it.

Why ? Can't Mutants feel themselves?

It would be interesting to see a character like Dr Samson on Krakoa, someone dedicated to therapy just like Dr Reyes is in her camp.

I could see Jean but Emma and Charles have shown their style to be too invasive and imposing sometimes.

Didn't Samson goad Speedball "Penance" into a superpowered fight last time we saw him? Talk about invasive lol
Orrrwas it in Xfactor??

I’m pretty sure that you can’t be a therapist by saying you are a therapist.

Preeeetty sure those people are qualified or at least as qualified as the X-Men are running a school

[Anthony Shaw]

You could argue that things went sideways after Magneto attacked Cape Citadel.

The military gave 5 masked teenagers the benefit of the doubt to stop Magneto. Angel had fan girls before his identity was public back then. The O5 also attended the marriage of Reed & Sue Richards. They may have been present when Wasp married an unstable Hank Pym, IIRC. The X-Men had some clout in the early days.

Things turned for the worst when Larry Trask made the M-II Sentinels. Those Sentinels invaded private property, and kidnapped American citizens with zero chill.





The Sentinels were even on foreign soil hunting mutants. What could have been an act of war was met with indifference.



I would blame the Trask family more for creating worldwide public hysteria about mutants than Magneto. Magneto had other public encounters with the Avengers (seeking to recruit Pietro & Wanda back to his side), the FF (teaming up with/betraying Namor), but those ventures ended up blowing up in his face, especially when his own creation Alpha, turned against him during conflict with the Defenders.

After Larry died, the Sentinel threat just escalated. At least with Magneto, other heroes opposed him when the X-Men were not around. The US government was just letting Sentinels attack fellow Americans, just for being mutants. Foreign governments were letting Sentinels enter their sovereign land, and take their own citizens.

The original government of Genosha was the natural conclusion to open hostility towards mutants. Members of their armed forces attacked the New Mutants on American soil with total apathy from the US government, IIRC.

[Lucyinthesky]

Didn't Samson goad Speedball "Penance" into a superpowered fight last time we saw him? Talk about invasive lol
Orrrwas it in Xfactor??

You will have to help me there because the last time I read about penance he was getting better from being brainwashed by Moonstone on Thuderbolts and later he worked on Avengers Academy and he was speedball again so I am not sure if Doc Samson was his therapist at some point but my point was more about having an individual mutants dedicated to theraphy just like they have Dr Reyes and Healer for their physical wounds, given the state of mind of some mutants as well as some consequences from the ressurrection process it would make sense for them to have a specific group or person for this.

Emma, Jean and Charles all have experience but I guess I have more memories of them using their powers to hurt rather than help and that´s why I see them as invasive they also sometimes take some things for granted using their powers without allowing the person to come to their own conclusions and healing so that´s why I think it would be interesting to see a mutant trained and dedicated to therapy even if they are not telepaths themselves.

[Zelena]

Emma is canon therapist certified and I guess Jean went to Psychology college. Jean helped Gentle overcome his trauma

Professionals are what they are by their practice and not just by having some “alleged degrees”. It is why it is preferable to be operated by surgeons who are doing a lot of operations than by those who are doing a few.
Emma and the X-men are doing a lot of things but they don’t spend their time healing people. Cecilia Reyes is the only one that looks convincing as a professional.

Preeeetty sure those people are qualified or at least as qualified as the X-Men are running a school

I agree. They tinker with what they have while they look down on people that have better qualifications than them. It’s what Doom said to Xavier.

[Houseofhick]

The military gave 5 masked teenagers the benefit of the doubt to stop Magneto. Angel had fan girls before his identity was public back then. The O5 also attended the marriage of Reed & Sue Richards. They may have been present when Wasp married an unstable Hank Pym, IIRC. The X-Men had some clout in the early days.

Things turned for the worst when Larry Trask made the M-II Sentinels. Those Sentinels invaded private property, and kidnapped American citizens with zero chill.





The Sentinels were even on foreign soil hunting mutants. What could have been an act of war was met with indifference.



I would blame the Trask family more for creating worldwide public hysteria about mutants than Magneto. Magneto had other public encounters with the Avengers (seeking to recruit Pietro & Wanda back to his side), the FF (teaming up with/betraying Namor), but those ventures ended up blowing up in his face, especially when his own creation Alpha, turned against him during conflict with the Defenders.

After Larry died, the Sentinel threat just escalated. At least with Magneto, other heroes opposed him when the X-Men were not around. The US government was just letting Sentinels attack fellow Americans, just for being mutants. Foreign governments were letting Sentinels enter their sovereign land, and take their own citizens.

The original government of Genosha was the natural conclusion to open hostility towards mutants. Members of their armed forces attacked the New Mutants on American soil with total apathy from the US government, IIRC.

Mutants and the rest of humanity should take their share of the blame for all the hate.
If the mutants are going to blame the rest of humanity then that means they are blaming their mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers who may not be mutants.
How many times have mutants attacked mutants? If you look at what mutants have done to fellow mutants then you realise the problem is ALL of humanity.
All of humanity should work together to stop the threat of Sentinels because it will not be just mutants they end up targeting.

[Grunty]

The military gave 5 masked teenagers the benefit of the doubt to stop Magneto. Angel had fan girls before his identity was public back then. The O5 also attended the marriage of Reed & Sue Richards. They may have been present when Wasp married an unstable Hank Pym, IIRC. The X-Men had some clout in the early days.

(...)

The original government of Genosha was the natural conclusion to open hostility towards mutants. Members of their armed forces attacked the New Mutants on American soil with total apathy from the US government, IIRC.

Thanks for providing these classic X-men pages. It certainly paints a very grim picture of the world in the marvel comics, at least the X-men side. One much more grimmer than just the constant super villain attacks, because at least those can considered extreme situations by outside reality characters and groups, while these are horrible actions performed by a group which is supposed to mirror something from our reality.
Something the (original US) readers are supposed to trust (albeit not blindly) and have a hand in shaping. The US government.

And that makes it much worse than your run of the mil super villains or extremist groups doing it, because with them you have a balance on both sides of the super powered vs. unpowered spectrum and there is the classic super hero comic willing suspencion of disbelief going on to accept it happening in a mirror of our world.
Also all heros can take actions against them.

But when it's the US government doing these things, it feels much more closer to reality and the hands of non-mutant heros are tied to a degree because they can't openly move against their own government so easily (though the real reason is because of super heros can't constantly interfer in each others stories).

And to make matters worse, the government hostility can only ever come from one side, because mutant nations by the nature of these comics can't exist for long, because unlike the US government, they don't exist in the real world and it's our world reflecting into the super hero comics primarily and defining the status quo.
So no constant stories of mutant governments or officials hunting down normal humans in their own borders or scenes of human rights abuse by them. No that can only ever come from one side.

I guess that's why these stories hit so hard, because they feel too close to home at least thematically. So it's no suprise someone could get the image that hostility primarily comes from the normal human side, because super villains aren't real, governments, hate groups and powerfull corperations are and they tend to be made of non-mutant folks in these comics.

So a mutant super villain killing thousands of people gets disregarded after a while, because it's not reflective of reality, but a government deploying heavy weapons against their own citizen, we have all seen that on TV either currently or historicaly. So those scenes hit harder.

Though personal opinion. That's why i seriously dislike the big purple sentinels in the X-men. Because, as i once mentioned in another topic, they break my willing suspension of disbelief even in a world of super heros, super technology and magic.

Not as general concept, but how they are used and by whom.

Because those aren't machines created by aliens or super villains trying to TAKE OVER THE WORLD or governments to battle giant Kaiju. They are made to hunt human sized people with weapons that could and WILL level entire city blocks, deployed on US soil, to hunt US citizen and they only ever do that.

The US government in this fictional example has access to giant AI controlled heavily armored walking warmachine armed with energy weapons and they only ever deploy them against a small group of people? That makes no sense.

These things should by all accounts have triggered a massive arms race between the various power blocks and they would have been seen deployed in middle east and other regions of conflicts the USA got involved in. Spies would have raced to get the plans for them or governments would have bought them from Trask and build their own.
Not to hunt mutants but to arm their militaries with them. Because this is a super hero piece of technology, which the writers allowed to end in the hands of real world governments and shown getting mass produced.

The Genosha destroying Sentinel alone should have caused a worldwide hysteria and investigation akin to a terrorist organization firing an orbital railgun loaded with fusion warheads on Johannesburg because they were bummed the apartheid government got dissolved.

So it's not like Iron Man's Armory Wars, where the government had a few "prototype" power armor systems, which could be reasoned away as costing a fortune to produce in greater number. No. Sentinels can apparently be produced in massive numbers and the tax payers don't complain?

I'm not reasoning against the visual impact the big purple Sentinels provided to the comics and cartoons of the X-men comic. But the manner in which they were introduced and keep being used just is annoying me.

Especialy because shadowy minority hunting cyborgs/androids make a lot more sense when they are relative human sized like the Prime Sentinels.

Also i think a more reasonable strategy by the US government would have been to keep forming their own mutant teams, filled with people loyal to the state, as controll agencies, which could clash with the X-men in a "controll vs. freedom" thematic.

[Houseofhick]

I reeeeally don't think he was being totally earnest. Not sure why every body do BH about it. Humans worship athletes/celebrities who either sing/act better then general population or in the case of athletes run, jump, etc better than most. Many mutants surpass the avg human in physicality alone + many have Abilities on par with bring ancient humans worshipped. Considering this was the Mutants 'coming out' There was A need to let huMans know what DaFuq was up.
Also Godhood doesn't mean you can't get bested by anyone (why would Thor need rest of Avengers)?or that lowly humans can't stand against you.
Storm beat Wonder Woman and Thor...2Gods
Jesus was killed by reg humans.
One aspect Most God's share...the ability to transcend Death. Which the Mutants can do sooo...

Yeah SuBlime set everything in motion but it was humanity's barbarity that made the Weapons+ program what it is....

Ehhh the practice of abandoning 'strange' kids at birth is as old as human civilization. Even some folks on here would have a hard time blaming the Mutant babies. Apocalypse was a happy and generous kid but his survival of the fittest idealogy was beat into by his surrogate human family then enraged further by Kang and the humans who were in charge of ancient Egypt. Soooo shots fired

Huh ??Trask had giant purple robots....it woulda been exposed either way


Uh Zuut? What did Mutants do to humans to deserve Sentinels? Weapons+? Neverland Ranvhy? Genosha? M-Day?
Why ? Can't Mutants feel themselves?

Didn't Samson goad Speedball "Penance" into a superpowered fight last time we saw him? Talk about invasive lol
Orrrwas it in Xfactor??



Preeeetty sure those people are qualified or at least as qualified as the X-Men are running a school

I couldn't really tell if you were making a case for mutants being gods or not. Do you think mutants are now gods?

[BroHomo]

Mutants and the rest of humanity should take their share of the blame for all the hate.

I'm not saying all Mutants are altruistic and rest of humanity is evil. What blame do mutants take for reg humans hatin on them for being born?

If the mutants are going to blame the rest of humanity then that means they are blaming their mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers who may not be mutants.

...well a lot if not most mutants don't have good family backgrounds I don't think this would be much if an issue

How many times have mutants attacked mutants? If you look at what mutants have done to fellow mutants then you realise the problem is ALL of humanity.

And it not be over differing idealogy on how to respond to reg humans persecution? But counting those confrontations prob not often considering even at ore Genosha attacj numbers Mutants would only account for .4 of Earth's population How Mutants relate to each other has no real relevance in the situation you've presented..

All of humanity should work together to stop the threat of Sentinels because it will not be just mutants they end up targeting.

yeah that's pretty much the plot of DoFP(comics) a

[Houseofhick]

I'm not saying all Mutants are altruistic and rest of humanity is evil. What blame do mutants take for reg humans hatin on them for being born?
...well a lot if not most mutants don't have good family backgrounds I don't think this would be much if an issue

And it not be over differing idealogy on how to respond to reg humans persecution? But counting those confrontations prob not often considering even at ore Genosha attacj numbers Mutants would only account for .4 of Earth's population How Mutants relate to each other has no real relevance in the situation you've presented..


yeah that's pretty much the plot of DoFP(comics) a

I have already stated that both should take their fair share of blame so I really don't know where you are going with this blame game or what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that mutants have a right to be mad at the rest of humanity?
Are you actually saying ALL mutants don't care if their non mutant family or friends suffer or die?
It was so easy to forgive fellow mutants for what they have done to fellow mutants........ Morlock Massacre is totally forgiven.
If mutants are only .4 of earths population then really we should be seeing more attacks by the rest of humanity in the comics. If you take Morrisons run for example, how much of that run was mutant against the rest of the humans? So if humanity doesn't fall into that .4 of the population do they ALL get tarred with the same brush?
So what is different after DoFP? How are they working together to stop the Sentinels?

[Havok83]

I have already stated that both should take their fair share of blame so I really don't know where you are going with this blame game or what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that mutants have a right to be mad at the rest of humanity?
Are you actually saying ALL mutants don't care if their non mutant family or friends suffer or die?
It was so easy to forgive fellow mutants for what they have done to fellow mutants........ Morlock Massacre is totally forgiven.
If mutants are only .4 of earths population then really we should be seeing more attacks by the rest of humanity in the comics. If you take Morrisons run for example, how much of that run was mutant against the rest of the humans? So if humanity doesn't fall into that .4 of the population do they ALL get tarred with the same brush?
So what is different after DoFP? How are they working together to stop the Sentinels?

As of Hellions #1, its not

[Hizashi]

I agree a telepath is not always ideal for everybody in need of therapy.

I could see Jean but Emma and Charles have shown their style to be too invasive and imposing sometimes.

It's not about the person for me, I am just heavily against the overuse of telepathy, as it's always invasive and imposing regardless of that. If ever there was an ability that needed regulation of some kind, it's that.

[BroHomo]

I have already stated that both should take their fair share of blame so I really don't know where you are going with this blame game or what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that mutants have a right to be mad at the rest of humanity?

I meean their anger would be justified...but no not really mad per se... Mutants lashing out should be expected tho Do you also blame a minority group because there's racists who hate them?

Are you actually saying ALL mutants don't care if their non mutant family or friends suffer or die?

What??? No.
It was so easy to forgive fellow mutants for what they have done to fellow mutants........ Morlock Massacre is totally forgiven.[/QUOTE] Yeah but it's not tho And technically Sinister wasn't a Mutant when he ordered the massacre

If mutants are only .4 of earths population then really we should be seeing more attacks by the rest of humanity in the comics.

i think we see enough lol

If you take Morrisons run for example, how much of that run was mutant against the rest of the humans?

Riot at Xavier's? The other story arcs main villains were John Sublime...his U-Men... Cassandra Nova...none of them Mutants

So what is different after DoFP? How are they working together to stop the Sentinels?

I don't think the general team of Mutants know about the DoFP nightmare.i meeean humanity can stop producing them that'll work.

[Anthony Shaw]

Mutants and the rest of humanity should take their share of the blame for all the hate.
If the mutants are going to blame the rest of humanity then that means they are blaming their mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers who may not be mutants.
How many times have mutants attacked mutants? If you look at what mutants have done to fellow mutants then you realise the problem is ALL of humanity.
All of humanity should work together to stop the threat of Sentinels because it will not be just mutants they end up targeting.

My post was to display that mutants had it bad back in the silver age, and things just got worse with time. I don't agree with everything the X-Men are doing on this era, but I understand the need for a recognized mutant nation-state.

IMO, one of the biggest sell-outs is Sebastian Shaw. In addition to participating in the exploitation of Jean Grey/Phoenix, he also had Sentinels. Shaw had the means to uplift his people, but did the exact opposite.

Mutants have been shooting themselves in the foot, in addition to the abuse inflicted by bigoted humans. All branches of collective humanity (baseline humans, superhumans, mutants, Inhumans, enhanced humans, etc.) is fallible.

Hey, it was the Avengers that destroyed those M-II Sentinels. Captain America & Falcon assisted the X-Men against the original secret empire back in the 1970's. The secret empire also targeted mutants. When Cap discovered who the leader of the SE was, and the subsequent suicide, he gave up the shield.

It is up to the creative powers at Marvel to do more team-up stories. I love it when the Marvel Universe feels so connected. I am sure well will see coalitions in the MCU.

Just because other heroes assist mutants does not mean that their particular persecution will end. We see this in real life with empathetic people standing alongside BLM, and taking a stand against the violence AAPI are going through. Haters are gonna hate.