What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[Hizashi]

I think that being the best X-book when it was published and a good portrayal of Jean really made people like Red.

What book she is the main character? X-men didn't focused on her in any issue and x-force is just some guest without any impact on the character. Far away from beng the charcter that lead teams and took initiatives

Red being better than Blue or Gold is hardly high praise. I thought Jean's portrayal was just okay, I was really expecting more.

I'm not reading X-Force, is Jean really not a major character there?

I liked X-men Red Jean because I saw a matured and experienced woman, as it is logic after so many years. It helped that the design matched perfectly her personality: she had charisma and bore on her shoulders the comic.

Hickman’s Jean can be as competent as she wants: she looks twenty…

I'm no Jean expert, but setting aside how I felt she herself wasn't really used as best as possible, the book was a team one and taken in full I think Red was a letdown.

Everyone perpetually looks twenty, don't they?

[Hizashi]

That’s a somewhat valid point but to counter that the countries America helps recognize America as an independent nation, that’s not really a trade because America gains nothing from being recognized as a nation even though they provide aid. Krakoa is the same, they didn’t make any demands to be on the UN or ask to be at the economic summit, they were invited and accepted. Krakoa also provides the drugs to third world countries that can offer nothing. I don’t really think it’s a strong argument to say trading life saving medicine just for being recognized as an independent people is an even deal. Clearly the countries receiving the medicine benefit while Krakoa just exists.

And let’s be honest, if Russia’s population pleaded for the drugs to help save lives Xavier would send them, well actually they already are supposed to be doing that as that was the original premise of Marauders but the story has kind of veered away from that plot. Emma’s schtick is supposed to be controlling the black market for the drugs so everyone gets them, even if they don’t “officially” recognize Krakoa.

Krakoa was invited to join the UN? I haven't read or reread HoX/PoX in a long while, I guess I forgot that. I genuinely thought that the drugs were being used as leverage on the world stage.

As for your point about what America, or any major power, gets from a similar situation, it's not just purely recognition they would want - there are protections, privileges, and alliances that come along with all of that. If Krakoa hadn't bothered trying to join the world they would almost guarantee an instant enemy of the world - I think they did what they had to in order to establish Krakoa as cleanly and painlessly as possible, and that required being on the world stage out in the open.

[Hizashi]

Thanks. I actually really do appreciate it.

No problem bud.

To your last point. So how do we segregate, uh I mean weed out more powered individuals then. A registration act for powers will easily single out mutants because they have an xgene. There is no universal way to determine the same about other powered people. Would a human telepath be less dangerous than a mutant one? Things like that show the inherent bias that exist in certain laws. Now those laws are racist as they would end up targeting the most easily identifiable first which would be clocking mutants at birth while human psychics are skipping under the radar and potentially manipulating minds.

There'd be no need for segregation or anything like that. I'd propose something like what is seen in the world of My Hero Academia, whose setting is basically what I imagine a largely mutant world would look like. For those that don't know, MHA is a manga about a world where "quirks" (mutant powers) developed rapidly among the world population - leaving basically less than 20% of "regular" humans left. There was mass chaos during the beginning of that new world, but eventually everything stabilized and a new society formed.

Mutants aren't the dominant race in the MU, and that's fine, but they could borrow a few things from MHA such as: numerous schools to teach and aid the development of superpowered people, agencies tasked with helping newly powered individuals, licensed government-authorized superheroes, general laws regarding the level of power use in day-to-day life. None of this would be specific to mutants only, and there would be third-parties for those distrustful of the government - probably involving the X-Men in some way.

Your point about telepaths possibly manipulating minds 1) is why I'm quite wary of telepaths and 2) actually strengthens my idea, because it would be much harder to do that in this framework. Also, how would someone identify a mutant telepath versus a human telepath? I don't think that specific example works as well.

[Hizashi]

We playing that game. Okay name a good Mystique, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister story in the last 10 years. Good luck with that

No the point does not stand ,There has only been one new X-villain to break out over last 20 years into top echelon of X-villains in Casandra Nova. The caliber of villain has dropped because they keep rehashing old villains instead of building new ones, Nova is one of few new villains get used in a "big story" every other time has been same suspects in weak stories. You aren't going to get any good villains if you don't use them in big and impactful stories. Stories & Villains need time to cook Orchis with Doctor Killian Devo, Doctor Alia Gregor and Omega Sentinel is cooking, The Children of the Vault is cooking, Genesis and apocalypse children are cooking, Isca, White Sword and Arrkoa Mutants are cooking, Otherworld villains are cooking not everything has been a hit but we got some good villains being built up right now.

Magneto, Shaw, Mystique, Apocalypse, Sinister, Exodus have not stop being antagonist in books so we didn't go from anything they are still there are still cause conflict in books, And the line is focusing on making new star villains so maybe we will have someone other than Bastion, Unit, John Sumblime and Cassandra Nova to mix in to line up of classic X-villains. We have already Dr. Gregor, Isca and Genesis who are off to great starts and can be turn into something more with good stories, the line is far better off than people are pretending.

PS-I will be waiting on those stories

What game?

A lack of good stories recently using those characters doesn't diminish their actual narrative caliber.

I won't argue that it's important to create new villains, and yes they need to be used in order to build equity. That being said, all of the antagonists that you mentioned are cooking? That's all they've done, there's so little forward momentum on any of them - they'll never match the old guard at this rate. It's too soon to say that they're good villains, we need the payoff before making that call; and good concepts don't guarantee good characters.

The narrative doesn't seem to be treating Magneto and the rest as antagonists, unless I missed something.

[cranger]

I just don't think we'll get anywhere if we continue to box the X-Men into a minority only category. The idea that superpowered people need some regulation or framework shouldn't necessarily be a bad one - unfortunately Marvel decided that it was. I'm not even saying that the government needs to be involved, but it shouldn't be controversial to say that people, mutants and humans alike, with dangerous powers might need some outside help.

There was a time people were openly sending their kids to mutant schools. Marvel did the whole super powers school with Avengers Academy.

The Avengers kids got shipped off to the Hunger Games.

Then Marvel decided to gas all the mutants.

So, yeah, there are some cool ways Marvel can establish their Universe to celebrate powers and build up positive, constructive franchises. But nothing is going to stop that one time some editor/writer decides to crap all over it.

[Hizashi]

I would argue that jean, cyclops, storm, and wolverine have had the most focus out of all the characters whether it be character development or feats of strength or just panel time. Going forward, i feel this is going to be the case as well. Not that i would be against reading a jean solo series because i am always up for those, i would just say don’t get your hopes up because every time they try to do a solo series besides wolverine it just gets cancelled because of lack of interest and sales. There are plenty of xmen i would love to see in a new solo series though. Storm is my main one but like i said they have all been getting their fair share of development and just overall bad ass moments.

If Jean's use in X-Force is similar to Cyclops' in X-Men, then she's being misused. Being in a few panels per book is not the same thing as focus, panel time is not a good metric on its own.

[Hizashi]

There was a time people were openly sending their kids to mutant schools. Marvel did the whole super powers school with Avengers Academy.

The Avengers kids got shipped off to the Hunger Games.

Then Marvel decided to gas all the mutants.

So, yeah, there are some cool ways Marvel can establish their Universe to celebrate powers and build up positive, constructive franchises. But nothing is going to stop that one time some editor/writer decides to crap all over it.

And it all comes back to the editors. There needs to be a rule against simply destroying all of that.

[Kingdom X]

What game?

A lack of good stories recently using those characters doesn't diminish their actual narrative caliber.

I won't argue that it's important to create new villains, and yes they need to be used in order to build equity. That being said, all of the antagonists that you mentioned are cooking? That's all they've done, there's so little forward momentum on any of them - they'll never match the old guard at this rate. It's too soon to say that they're good villains, we need the payoff before making that call; and good concepts don't guarantee good characters.

The narrative doesn't seem to be treating Magneto and the rest as antagonists, unless I missed something.

Magneto may not be treated as an antagonist but Mystique, Exodus, Shaw, and Sinister definitely still are. Some of their schemes are more behind the scenes but I like the tensions that’s building.

[Rang10]

And it all comes back to the editors. There needs to be a rule against simply destroying all of that.

That is true. Someone should really check if the idea is good or just destruction for the sake of it.It's hard to dedicate to comics when in one storyline everything is undone

Magneto may not be treated as an antagonist but Mystique, Exodus, Shaw, and Sinister definitely still are. Some of their schemes are more behind the scenes but I like the tensions that’s building.

i don't get the idea that they are antagonist. they are part of the government

[Wolverine12]

Magneto may not be treated as an antagonist but Mystique, Exodus, Shaw, and Sinister definitely still are. Some of their schemes are more behind the scenes but I like the tensions that’s building.

I think that we will see an Xavier heel turn when he stomps out Mystique and her plans. There’s no pre cogs allowed and Mystique is angry about Destiny so I would assume Xavier is reading her thoughts to make sure she doesn’t try to end Krakoa.

[Kingdom X]

i don't get the idea that they are antagonist. they are part of the government

Antagonist: a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.

Mystique is clearly planning to take her revenge and revive Destiny. Shaw murdered Kate and is a direct adversary for the protagonists in Marauders. Exodus is indoctrinating children every time we see him and he attacked Cypher during XoS. Sinister has already betrayed the Hellions and likely plans on betraying Krakoa as a whole. Just because they're part of the government doesn't mean that they're not adversaries against our heroes.

[Killerbee911]

What game?

A lack of good stories recently using those characters doesn't diminish their actual narrative caliber.

I won't argue that it's important to create new villains, and yes they need to be used in order to build equity. That being said, all of the antagonists that you mentioned are cooking? That's all they've done, there's so little forward momentum on any of them - they'll never match the old guard at this rate. It's too soon to say that they're good villains, we need the payoff before making that call; and good concepts don't guarantee good characters.

The narrative doesn't seem to be treating Magneto and the rest as antagonists, unless I missed something.

Yup this type of answer I expected to get , So 10 years all those big names and you can't throw stories in my face and go look you are wrong. Why? because does big names have not done actually do anything for the story for years at times mentioning them is false premise. The last good Magneto story was Cullen Bunn series, The last good Mr. Sinister was Kieron Gillen story, The good Legion story was Si Spurrier, The last good Apocalypse story was AoA, Mystique and Exodus frankly are overrated from terms of quality story.

Saying we have from these amazing villains to well nothing is falsehood because the good villains are used so much in bad stories they have loss their kick. I didn't say the characters I mention are great villains I said they are off to good start but they will never match the past villains when Magneto, Apocalypse and others are always sitting in front of them always being used in the big but bad stories. From 2008 to 2019 think of new impactful X-men villain made, Genesis and original Horsemen are already more impactful than ANY villain made during that period(I would say the same about Orchis as well). The intended thing is happening with franchise with big X-villains sitting in grey area now, Orchis has chance to be use in big impact story ,Arakko has chance to be used in big impact story. Saturne was elevated into heavy hitter. The Children of the Vault is being elevated into a heavy hitters. But hey you guys want more Blood of the Apocalypse, Mojo Worldwide, X-men Blue Mothervine stuff with Magneto and Emma acting unexplainable different I guess.

Antagonist: a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.

Mystique is clearly planning to take her revenge and revive Destiny. Shaw murdered Kate and is a direct adversary for the protagonists in Marauders. Exodus is indoctrinating children every time we see him and he attacked Cypher during XoS. Sinister has already betrayed the Hellions and likely plans on betraying Krakoa as a whole. Just because they're part of the government doesn't mean that they're not adversaries against our heroes.

Yup..Shaw, Apocalypse and Mr Sinister have been running shenanigans from day 1. Mystique is about to be doing the same. Exodus and Magneto have been indoctrinating children with a philosophy that is not what classic X-men are about. Selene and Emplate feed on mutants it is only a matter of time they do something . Amahl Farouk is running around supposedly helping. You can be on the same side but have different goals and different methods of achieving those goals which leads to conflict. The villains where put on krakoa to implode the situation.

[Zelena]

To your last point. So how do we segregate, uh I mean weed out more powered individuals then. A registration act for powers will easily single out mutants because they have an xgene. There is no universal way to determine the same about other powered people. Would a human telepath be less dangerous than a mutant one? Things like that show the inherent bias that exist in certain laws. Now those laws are racist as they would end up targeting the most easily identifiable first which would be clocking mutants at birth while human psychics are skipping under the radar and potentially manipulating minds.

I don’t think it’s realistic that not all super-beings are targeting if the mutants are targeting for their powers.

I remember a comic where Spider-man had to leave the city with his wife when laws against mutants had been promulgated. When some people feel encouraged by those in power, they think they have the right to unleash their pent-up fears and passions as it has been shown with Trump.

[BroHomo]

Since when does telling Ghost Stories=Indoctrination??

[Killerbee911]

Since when does telling Ghost Stories=Indoctrination??

Since the campfire stories are deifying and villainizing certain things which will lead to certain attitude . It is on you whether or not you want to think it is insidious in nature, Military, Churches, Political Parties and even schools indoctrinate their members.