Page 45 of 95 FirstFirst ... 3541424344454647484955 ... LastLast
Results 661 to 675 of 1417
  1. #661
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    In regards to Scarlet Witch and “no more mutants,” it is completely missing the mass murder component of the genocide. Thus, it’s not a genocide. Also, mutant culture survived that incident just fine. No one can legitimately claim what Scarlet Witch did was mass murder or genocide.
    You don't need the mass murder component in the UN Genocide convention definition. Despite there being actually mass murder when mutants lost their powers and fell out of the sky, drowned or burnt to death

    Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
    Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

    Even if you don't want to count culture which the erasure of 99% of mutants would have had an impact on thats two

    "First, the crime of genocide is characterised by the specific intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means: causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 04-19-2021 at 03:29 AM.

  2. #662
    Extraordinary Member jwatson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,022

    Default

    I think it's too late at this point but the only reason why I think there needs to be some trial is because right now in the marvel u they are living in a world where if a mutant comes into enough power to say "no more baseline humans." Well could people be mad at her really if 95 percent of baseline humans snapped away or something. So optics.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

    My creator showcase thread ln cbr. http://https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?150839-Art-Journey

    Number of People on my ignore list: 0

  3. #663
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    You don't need the mass murder component in the UN Genocide convention definition. Despite there being actually mass murder when mutants lost their powers and fell out of the sky, drowned or burnt to death

    Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
    Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group

    Even if you don't want to count culture which the erasure of 99% of mutants would have had an impact on thats two

    "First, the crime of genocide is characterised by the specific intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means: causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
    The problem with citing the UN’s definition on this are humans don’t have super powers. There’s no real world analogies. The UN is using its definition to cover things like throwing people in concentration camps, as opposed to death camps. That’s not the same thing as de-powering via magical spell. What Wanda did was not genocide. No one tore babies away from their mothers or threw mutants into camp at Wanda’s bidding.

  4. #664
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,437

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The problem with citing the UN’s definition on this are humans don’t have super powers. There’s no real world analogies. The UN is using its definition to cover things like throwing people in concentration camps, as opposed to death camps. That’s not the same thing as de-powering via magical spell. What Wanda did was not genocide. No one tore babies away from their mothers or threw mutants into camp at Wanda’s bidding.
    I think you contradict yourself here. The UN in the MU would likely include 'super powered' means of what it felt is genocide in that reality as this kind of language is ever evolving. I am not arguing whether it is or is not, and I think it is kind of moot since we all know the results of the action so it is merely a matter of whether the term imposes a judgement on the action that one does not agree with. In which case everyone should just move on with what the proper punishment should be.

  5. #665
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Austin
    Posts
    5,328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The problem with citing the UN’s definition on this are humans don’t have super powers. There’s no real world analogies. The UN is using its definition to cover things like throwing people in concentration camps, as opposed to death camps. That’s not the same thing as de-powering via magical spell. What Wanda did was not genocide. No one tore babies away from their mothers or threw mutants into camp at Wanda’s bidding.
    Sure, that's why I said earlier there's not a 1:1 correlation, but the remaining 200 or so mutants certainly took it as genocide. Maybe it's closer to the sterilization of a population, but that's terrible also.

    At the end of the day, this just boils down to not thinking through and foreseeing the consequences of an idea like "No More Mutants"...
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  6. #666
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The problem with citing the UN’s definition on this are humans don’t have super powers. There’s no real world analogies. The UN is using its definition to cover things like throwing people in concentration camps, as opposed to death camps. That’s not the same thing as de-powering via magical spell. What Wanda did was not genocide. No one tore babies away from their mothers or threw mutants into camp at Wanda’s bidding.
    A trial is organized to identify the responsabilities of each participant in a crime.

    I don’t understand why characterizing what Wanda did: it was shown in details in the comic panels, neither I understand why heaping opprobrium on her: it’s not like every prominent mutant has never gone ballistic… with bigger consequences than any simple human.

  7. #667
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Sure, that's why I said earlier there's not a 1:1 correlation, but the remaining 200 or so mutants certainly took it as genocide. Maybe it's closer to the sterilization of a population, but that's terrible also.

    At the end of the day, this just boils down to not thinking through and foreseeing the consequences of an idea like "No More Mutants"...
    It was not the sterilization of mutants, either. Two mutants can have a human child. That was true before and after M Day.

    And I agree, it’s part of the consequences of Marvel editorial not thinking things through the character and story implications.

  8. #668
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    20,820

    Default

    Yes. Yes I'm still interested.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, THE REGENT OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #669
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,641

    Default

    It hasn't had the strongest start to it, I love Hickman's world building in other titles but I have yet to have that moment in his X-verse that had me like, I am really loving this. The only part of this gigantic X-renaissance that has moved me like that is the Madelyne Pryor arc in Hellions. I am glad Marvel put some serious talent (Hickman, Wells) and money behind the X-corner of the Marvel U but the only thing they have successfully done is raid my wallet for a lot of books I am pretty meh about in general, which is better than the outright hate I have had for a lot of the X-offerings lately (exception being the X-Men book when Scott was brought back I kind of liked that one).

  10. #670
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    Got no interest in talking bout wanda, cause that nonsense is a blackhole.

    Biggest issue with this run is it feels like people are only half way on the same page. And I don't mean the characters, but rather the writers.

    It's there enough that it doesn't feel completely jarring but more than a few times the narrative feels like it's really flying by the seat of its pants. And on top of all of that, it feels like Hickman isn't really doing nearly enough to push forward the main plot so other writers have to fill in the dead air with all these situations that aren't Orchis.

    And while it's taken a hell of a lot of time, I do enjoy that some dissenting voices have started to show up via Hellions and New Mutants and of course Wolverine every other day.

  11. #671
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    891

    Default

    I give Marvel and Hickman this — it certainly isn’t boring, it’s a title and series of titles on the must-read list now. I’m still hanging in with Dawn of X.

    I just don’t agree with Hickman’s direction entirely is all.

    Real baddies are now goodies. I don’t really like that.

    I don’t like Xavier’s hatch-a-mutant plans.

    Hickman mischaracterizes what Wanda did with depowering into killing all the affected mutants.

    Hickman presents Genosha like it’s Bolivar Trask’s fault when Bolivar has been dead since the ‘60s, in real time. Even in Marvel time, it’s been like a decade from his death to Genosha.

    These things also leave out that mutants caused these “genocides.”

    Yes, Wanda is supposedly now not a mutant. We’re a retcon away from her being a mutant again, and a retcon away from the obvious — she’s not a mutant because she said, “No more mutants.”

    Casandra Nova is to blame for Genosha, and being that she created herself from Charles’ mutant cells, she’s a mutant too, whether Marvel editorial has taken the time to think that through or not. That’s in addition to being Xavier’s evil, unborn twin, and a “mummudrai,” which is basically a Shi’ar demon who lives in the astral plane, those Shi’ar being some of Xavier’s oldest allies.

    I admit, Hickman has his work cut out for him. There’s nearly 60 years of insanity, bad continuity and awful stories to overcome, in addition to some great ones. But using as justification for the Krakoan nation the fictional mutant “genocides” — while leaving out consideration that Magneto and Xavier and their family relations played huge roles and even caused those slaughters — misrepresents the stories printed before this.

    I’m not saying it’s Xavier’s and Magneto’s fault, but it’s a pretty ridiculous notion that the people of Krakoa are going to have attitudes akin to: “Yes, please lead us, now that your ‘daughter’ depowered us and your evil twin genocided us. You two are the kinds of leaders we need! Your other ‘daughter’ and any other secret siblings are all cool, though, right?” It’s basically preposterous that the mutants of the world would follow Magneto and Xavier, especially if those “genocides” are the reasons. More likely in real life, the mutants of the world would be hunting Magneto and Xavier down for what their families wrought, whether that’s fair to Xavier and Magneto or not.

    Again, I’m sticking with the HiXmen for now. I am hoping he resolves these things in satisfactory ways.
    Last edited by Brian B; 04-19-2021 at 11:43 AM.

  12. #672
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    The problem with citing the UN’s definition on this are humans don’t have super powers. There’s no real world analogies. The UN is using its definition to cover things like throwing people in concentration camps, as opposed to death camps. That’s not the same thing as de-powering via magical spell. What Wanda did was not genocide. No one tore babies away from their mothers or threw mutants into camp at Wanda’s bidding.
    .
    Or Breeding out colour with what the british did in Australia.

    That is the definition of a genocide. It includes maiming an entire group of people. It's like saying jaywalking doesn't exist in the MCU because people can fly. The act of genocide still applies and by definition what Wanda did is a genocide. The means of which she did it is fictional but the closet thing would be mass castration or mass genetic engineering to commit genocide

  13. #673
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I’m not saying it’s Xavier’s and Magneto’s fault, but it’s a pretty ridiculous notion that the people of Krakoa are going to have attitudes akin to: “Yes, please lead us, now that your ‘daughter’ depowered us and your evil twin genocided us. You two are the kinds of leaders we need! Your other ‘daughter’ and any other secret siblings are all cool, though, right?” It’s basically preposterous that the mutants of the world would follow Magneto and Xavier, especially if those “genocides” are the reasons. More likely in real life, the mutants of the world would be hunting Magneto and Xavier down for what their families wrought, whether that’s fair to Xavier and Magneto or not.
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but what is common knowledge among the mutant population about the role of Xavier or Magneto on recent history has never been addressed. I have only seen mutants being grateful to have a sanctuary and… being there and having fun and contribute to Krakoan life. There’s no real pondering about the future of Krakoa or the turn taken by their life among the commoners.

  14. #674
    Fantastic Member mikedesil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    Yes. Yes I'm still interested.
    Yep same here.

  15. #675
    Fantastic Member rdman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    362

    Default

    Got to love it. Especially he has bought Synch back into the fold. and I'm hoping Jonathan Hicks will evolve Sunfire's character. Woukd like to know how he went from Japanese ultra-nationalist to mutant advocate.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •