What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[Hizashi]

They way you quote things is weird. It takes all of the context out of the rest of the message to seemingly add oomph to what your responding to but your only responding to certain parts. IF your going to quote me at least quote the whole thing and respond to the part you want.

The dark deed you requested is done.

[Hizashi]

Krakoa is a massive downgrade of Jean Grey On X-men Red and X-men blue. She isn't close to using all her potential, she just there to be a mom and a supportive girlfriend

I don't get why X-Men Red gets so much love, it was okay at best. And Tean, along with the rest of her ilk, stuck around well past their sell-by-date.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how Jean is being used now. She's a main character in one book and appears semi-regularly throughout others, so is the gripe that she just isn't taking more charge or that she doesn't have any feats to showcase in this era so far?

[Rang10]

I don't get why X-Men Red gets so much love, it was okay at best. And Tean, along with the rest of her ilk, stuck around well past their sell-by-date.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how Jean is being used now. She's a main character in one book and appears semi-regularly throughout others, so is the gripe that she just isn't taking more charge or that she doesn't have any feats to showcase in this era so far?

I think that being the best X-book when it was published and a good portrayal of Jean really made people like Red.

What book she is the main character? X-men didn't focused on her in any issue and x-force is just some guest without any impact on the character. Far away from beng the charcter that lead teams and took initiatives

[Alan2099]

Nobody is denying that Jean is powerful or that she's on teams and that other characters like her. The issue is that she's lacking in the personality and independence department.

To use some non-X examples, Adam Warlock may be powerful, but more people are interested in reading about Spider-man, because he's got a stronger personality and actually goes out and does things.

[Lucyinthesky]

Nobody is denying that Jean is powerful or that she's on teams and that other characters like her. The issue is that she's lacking in the personality and independence department.

To use some non-X examples, Adam Warlock may be powerful, but more people are interested in reading about Spider-man, because he's got a stronger personality and actually goes out and does things.

Agreed this is why sometimes it´s not such a good idea to make characters powerful in the place of character development, because then being powerful becomes their main atribute so there´s less focus on them as characters who do things, have motivations, etc.

Jean as phoenix in the original story had both the character work and the power, teen Jean wasn´t actual Jean but she had interesting thoughts, oppinions and character development.

So older Jean needs focus on her personality again, not just on her powers or if she´s with Scott or Logan at the moment. I want her to have conversations with Ororo like she used to have, to go and talk with Rachel, to have solo missions on X-force or bring another law for Krakoa. I hope we see her doing some of this in the new X-men team.

[Zelena]

I don't get why X-Men Red gets so much love, it was okay at best. And Tean, along with the rest of her ilk, stuck around well past their sell-by-date.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how Jean is being used now. She's a main character in one book and appears semi-regularly throughout others, so is the gripe that she just isn't taking more charge or that she doesn't have any feats to showcase in this era so far?

I liked X-men Red Jean because I saw a matured and experienced woman, as it is logic after so many years. It helped that the design matched perfectly her personality: she had charisma and bore on her shoulders the comic.

Hickman’s Jean can be as competent as she wants: she looks twenty…

[Wolverine12]

Hmmm I think you’re correct but at the same time Krakoa definitely needs a majority mutant population right? If there were more humans and less mutants wouldn’t the energy sapping take a bigger toll on the mutants? In that case sorta makes sense to have tight borders.

I don’t have actual specs on the size of Krakoa but I don’t think adding humans would hurt it unless you subtracted Mutants. There seems to be a lot of open/unused space on the island and it seems Krakoa is able to expand at will. Really my main point was I don’t think Krakoa the entity has ever said no to humans. Even though the QC did say that there have been humans living on the island since day 1 with Kyle and Shogo.

When America, through the government or independent humanitarian efforts provides drugs or support to other countries it's with the expectation of nothing in return (at least at face value in the government's case). Krakoa is trading these drugs to America in exchange for recognition on the world stage, it's an admittedly peaceful way of achieving the same thing NK tries to do with military arms and threatening it's neighbor. I'm not saying it's a bad or evil thing, just that it's not altruistic and shouldn't be presented as such - Krakoa certainly doesn't make that attempt.

The truth is that Krakoa has effectively made nearly all other first world countries second world now, and America and Europe at large have to be stressing about that, that's why it's a trade to recognize Krakoa on the world stage. It's actually an interesting development, I'm not knocking it beyond how it's framed sometimes.

That’s a somewhat valid point but to counter that the countries America helps recognize America as an independent nation, that’s not really a trade because America gains nothing from being recognized as a nation even though they provide aid. Krakoa is the same, they didn’t make any demands to be on the UN or ask to be at the economic summit, they were invited and accepted. Krakoa also provides the drugs to third world countries that can offer nothing. I don’t really think it’s a strong argument to say trading life saving medicine just for being recognized as an independent people is an even deal. Clearly the countries receiving the medicine benefit while Krakoa just exists.

And let’s be honest, if Russia’s population pleaded for the drugs to help save lives Xavier would send them, well actually they already are supposed to be doing that as that was the original premise of Marauders but the story has kind of veered away from that plot. Emma’s schtick is supposed to be controlling the black market for the drugs so everyone gets them, even if they don’t “officially” recognize Krakoa.

[jwatson]

The dark deed you requested is done.

Thanks. I actually really do appreciate it.

[jwatson]

I just don't think we'll get anywhere if we continue to box the X-Men into a minority only category. The idea that superpowered people need some regulation or framework shouldn't necessarily be a bad one - unfortunately Marvel decided that it was. I'm not even saying that the government needs to be involved, but it shouldn't be controversial to say that people, mutants and humans alike, with dangerous powers might need some outside help.

They might be more dangerous than 90% of the mutant population but then 1% (if not less) of mutants are more dangerous than all of them put together, considering there are numerous planet-busters among them. And think about that statement, those humans still have to learn, build, apply experience, a mutant can just be born with the power to destroy the planet. Why won't the Pro-Krakoa posters contend with this?

I have no context for what Val did, isn't she a child? How was she allowed to do that?

Exceptional or gifted people wouldn't qualify as superpowered in a world where puberty sometimes comes with telepathy.

To your last point. So how do we segregate, uh I mean weed out more powered individuals then. A registration act for powers will easily single out mutants because they have an xgene. There is no universal way to determine the same about other powered people. Would a human telepath be less dangerous than a mutant one? Things like that show the inherent bias that exist in certain laws. Now those laws are racist as they would end up targeting the most easily identifiable first which would be clocking mutants at birth while human psychics are skipping under the radar and potentially manipulating minds.

[Killerbee911]

Good vs Evil isn't bland, you just gotta find the good stuff. Besides, we've had years of morally ambiguous protagonists now.

Besides, RedMenace's point still stands: we went from Magneto, Mystique, Sinister, Apocalypse to vampires, Europeans, robots, children, and old women. The caliber has dropped, no need to pretend otherwise.

And it would be interesting if anyone behaved like they should - why are the Summers' not attacking Sinister?

We playing that game. Okay name a good Mystique, Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister story in the last 10 years. Good luck with that

No the point does not stand ,There has only been one new X-villain to break out over last 20 years into top echelon of X-villains in Casandra Nova. The caliber of villain has dropped because they keep rehashing old villains instead of building new ones, Nova is one of few new villains get used in a "big story" every other time has been same suspects in weak stories. You aren't going to get any good villains if you don't use them in big and impactful stories. Stories & Villains need time to cook Orchis with Doctor Killian Devo, Doctor Alia Gregor and Omega Sentinel is cooking, The Children of the Vault is cooking, Genesis and apocalypse children are cooking, Isca, White Sword and Arrkoa Mutants are cooking, Otherworld villains are cooking not everything has been a hit but we got some good villains being built up right now.

Magneto, Shaw, Mystique, Apocalypse, Sinister, Exodus have not stop being antagonist in books so we didn't go from anything they are still there are still cause conflict in books, And the line is focusing on making new star villains so maybe we will have someone other than Bastion, Unit, John Sumblime and Cassandra Nova to mix in to line up of classic X-villains. We have already Dr. Gregor, Isca and Genesis who are off to great starts and can be turn into something more with good stories, the line is far better off than people are pretending.

PS-I will be waiting on those stories

[Cane_danko]

Agreed this is why sometimes it´s not such a good idea to make characters powerful in the place of character development, because then being powerful becomes their main atribute so there´s less focus on them as characters who do things, have motivations, etc.

Jean as phoenix in the original story had both the character work and the power, teen Jean wasn´t actual Jean but she had interesting thoughts, oppinions and character development.

So older Jean needs focus on her personality again, not just on her powers or if she´s with Scott or Logan at the moment. I want her to have conversations with Ororo like she used to have, to go and talk with Rachel, to have solo missions on X-force or bring another law for Krakoa. I hope we see her doing some of this in the new X-men team.

Maybe because i read all these dawn of x books so i have a different opinion. She has gotten plenty of character development and is not reliant on others like at all.

[Lucyinthesky]

I read her on X-men and parts of X-force so I guess I don´t have the whole picture but they left me with the impression that she could use more interactions with more characters. I also liked her teen version so maybe I am biased.

[SiycoBatSquirrel]

Agreed this is why sometimes it´s not such a good idea to make characters powerful in the place of character development, because then being powerful becomes their main atribute so there´s less focus on them as characters who do things, have motivations, etc.

Jean as phoenix in the original story had both the character work and the power, teen Jean wasn´t actual Jean but she had interesting thoughts, oppinions and character development.

So older Jean needs focus on her personality again, not just on her powers or if she´s with Scott or Logan at the moment. I want her to have conversations with Ororo like she used to have, to go and talk with Rachel, to have solo missions on X-force or bring another law for Krakoa. I hope we see her doing some of this in the new X-men team.

Thank you. That has always been her problem.

All power, some personality, very little growth.

I would like to see Jean getting character growth that doesn't involve Scott or Logan or being put in a ship with either to receive it.
At this point, they are doing nothing but holding her back and they don't have the Phoenix as an excuse to keep her close anymore.
The only reason why Scott and Jean are even together at this point is for their alternate dimension kids...not because they want to.
The only reason why Logan holds Jean's attention and attraction is for one thing....Freedom. Something that she does not have with Scott or the X-Men.

But I find that as a joke since Logan's more bad for her health than Scott due to the fact that Logan loves the chase and challenge with her specifically and puts himself in the position to be hunted and collect enemies daily through his recklessness and volatile temper. I doubt Jean leaving Scott for Logan is gonna be much of an upgrade unless she likes the idea of being his therapist, bodyguard and moral compass 24/7.

Despite the popularity from the X movies, the truth is that most of what happens to Logan is self-inflicted through his past actions rather than the incidents that happened through sheer bad luck or being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Cane_danko]

I read her on X-men and parts of X-force so I guess I don´t have the whole picture but they left me with the impression that she could use more interactions with more characters. I also liked her teen version so maybe I am biased.

I would argue that jean, cyclops, storm, and wolverine have had the most focus out of all the characters whether it be character development or feats of strength or just panel time. Going forward, i feel this is going to be the case as well. Not that i would be against reading a jean solo series because i am always up for those, i would just say don’t get your hopes up because every time they try to do a solo series besides wolverine it just gets cancelled because of lack of interest and sales. There are plenty of xmen i would love to see in a new solo series though. Storm is my main one but like i said they have all been getting their fair share of development and just overall bad ass moments.

[Rang10]

I read her on X-men and parts of X-force so I guess I don´t have the whole picture but they left me with the impression that she could use more interactions with more characters. I also liked her teen version so maybe I am biased.

I think you arent losing a lot, Jean is mostly to suppoirt other characters. In ages the last x-force was her better showing and she was there to support/mentor Quentin.