What do you think of Hickmans X-Men so far, still Interested or Not ??

[Killerbee911]

I always liked this exchange, Emma and Logan are living in the real world while everyone else is afraid to realize what needs to be done.

I mean in hindsight they weren't exactly wrong but presenting that you might have to kill a friend definitely need more tact than Wolverine and Emma pitches.

[Zelena]

I always liked this exchange, Emma and Logan are living in the real world while everyone else is afraid to realize what needs to be done.

It’s hard to contemplate the killing of a teamate and a friend even gone crazy.

This shows the responsability of people having great powers. Could they be judged in the same way as everyone? And by friends? What worse thing could Spider-man do if he becomes mad? He would still easily be stopped by a coalition of super-heroes…

[Vishop]

It’s hard to contemplate the killing of a teamate and a friend even gone crazy.

This shows the responsability of people having great powers. Could they be judged in the same way as everyone? And by friends? What worse thing could Spider-man do if he becomes mad? He would still easily be stopped by a coalition of super-heroes…

So Spider-Man is a bigger threat like Wanda was.... Either way I never really liked how Bendis wrote Emma or Logan. He was always retrospective towards their character development.

[Grunty]

I mean in hindsight they weren't exactly wrong but presenting that you might have to kill a friend definitely need more tact than Wolverine and Emma pitches.

They could, but they wouldn't have, because their characters under this writer dictated that they had to do it this way, so the Avengers would look more relatable in rejecting the option.

It should also be considered that time over time, these heros, Avengers and X-men alike, managed to turn difficult situations around, contained earth or even universe threatening dangers, or found solutions for what was at the start of the stories deemed impossible.

So with that in mind, why should the narrative be for them to accept the situation to be entirely hopeless and only the most extreme method to be viable this time, when they managed to be beat the odds so many times before?
Regardless of how reasonable Emma's and Wolverine's suggestion here is in hindsight, the Avengers could have never accepted it, even if they would have worded it better, because as the characters they are they aren't allowed to accept it.
Since it would have damaged them as heroic characters, who's entire image is based around finding alternate solutions, pulling through impossible odds or finding some deus ex machina to reverse the damage.

Imagine instead Captain America going "Well, they are right.", pulling a loaded shotgun from underneath the desk and ask who is willing to take Wanda behind the shed and perform the "Lennie Smalls Protocol" on her.
Just look at the outrage in the Star Wars fandom over the scene in The Last Jedi were Luke Skywalker was shown in a moment of weakness contemplating killing his nephew, to prevent him from becomming worse than Darth Vader.The Avengers agreeing on killing Wanda would have caused the same outrage here i think.

Though on the other hand, this was before 15 years of terrible stories and events like Secret Empire, Civil War (I or II), or AvX, which greatly tarnished the image of these heros in the comic books. In the current days i have the feeling many would just apathically shrug at iit.

Meanwhile Emma and Wolverine are both in a different situation character/personality wise.
Emma is a reformed villain and Wolverine is an anti-hero with a body count in the thousand(s). They both have something akin to the "jester's freedom", being allowed to say or suggest something which the regular heros would have not been allowed to say.
Just like how medieval court jesters/fools are said to have been allowed to critize and even insult their kings to the face, because they were "just" the Jester and could be dismissed.

Not to forget that as X-men they are bound to remember the tragedy of the Dark Phoenix, hence having that stories outcome as option to suggest.

However even if the Avengers would have agreed with Emma and Logan, the outcome would have been the same, because the narrative dictated that ANY solution they would try would not work. Because House of M and Decimination was dictated to happen.

So if they tried to kill Wanda, she would survive, go crazier and create House of M. If they tried to trap her in an anti-magic field, she would break out, go crazier and create House of M. If they tried to ban her into a pocket dimension, she would break out, go crazier and create House of M. If they tried to cure her mental instability by some yet unexplored means, it would fail, she would go crazier and create House of M. And so on and so on.

Meanwhile if the story was designed towards them finding a solution, like so many stories in the past, they would have found it by chance, at last minute or by someone suddently remembering they have the option.

In which case Emma Frost and Wolverine would have been proven wrong, but not damaged character wise, because the suggestion was fitting to their personalities and backstories.

[Killerbee911]

However even if the Avengers would have agreed with Emma and Logan, the outcome would have been the same, because the narrative dictated that ANY solution they would try would not work. Because House of M and Decimination was dictated to happen.

That is fine but Avengers having nobody who goes "She can kill millions of people, maybe we have to consider ALL options" or "we have last option that we don't want to use" says something about the effectiveness of that group. For me Heroes look no worse for considering the option but never intending or doing everything in their power not to use it. But I like wolverine being around because he is this dude



Of course if I remember correctly that screwed up the timeline more

[jmc247]

Though on the other hand, this was before 15 years of terrible stories and events like Secret Empire, Civil War (I or II), or AvX, which greatly tarnished the image of these heros in the comic books. In the current days i have the feeling many would just apathically shrug at iit.

Meanwhile Emma and Wolverine are both in a different situation character/personality wise.
Emma is a reformed villain and Wolverine is an anti-hero with a body count in the thousand(s). They both have something akin to the "jester's freedom", being allowed to say or suggest something which the regular heros would have not been allowed to say.
Just like how medieval court jesters/fools are said to have been allowed to critize and even insult their kings to the face, because they were "just" the Jester and could be dismissed.

Not to forget that as X-men they are bound to remember the tragedy of the Dark Phoenix, hence having that stories outcome as option to suggest.

However even if the Avengers would have agreed with Emma and Logan, the outcome would have been the same, because the narrative dictated that ANY solution they would try would not work. Because House of M and Decimination was dictated to happen.

So if they tried to kill Wanda, she would survive, go crazier and create House of M. If they tried to trap her in an anti-magic field, she would break out, go crazier and create House of M. If they tried to ban her into a pocket dimension, she would break out, go crazier and create House of M. If they tried to cure her mental instability by some yet unexplored means, it would fail, she would go crazier and create House of M. And so on and so on.

Emma and Wolverine in House of M very much represented the new take on heroes going into the new era.

[Zelena]

But I like wolverine being around because he is this dude

He likes too much being that dude to me. He’s like the X-men’s personal assassin.

Of course, wasn’t he be around, it would force the others to take their responsabilities and consider all the options. But, in a way, it would tarnish all the heroes and not just blacken even more an already dark character.

[Sutekh]

It’s hard to contemplate the killing of a teamate and a friend even gone crazy.

This shows the responsability of people having great powers. Could they be judged in the same way as everyone? And by friends? What worse thing could Spider-man do if he becomes mad? He would still easily be stopped by a coalition of super-heroes…

It's funny that Logan and Emma are advocating for a real world 'final solution' (ah, if only Magneto was there to draw the obvious connection between them and the Nazis...) and yet they live in a comic book universe, and they both know *multiple* people who have come back from the dead, meaning that a 'final solution' is way less final than it was back in the day.

For Logan, it makes a bit of sense, that his big thing is claws, and every problem looks like something that needs stabbing.

But for Emma? She can and has demonstrated the ability to shut down someone's access to their powers with her telepathy (having done so to Empath, back when he was abusing his powers, as a Hellion). She could easily close off Wanda's access to her powers, and it would be no more or less 'permanent' than killing her (since it will get undone, 'cause, comics, just as if they killed her, she'd just get resurrected, 'cause, comics).

Plus Emma is actually smart. She knows that Dr. Strange and Tony Stark are in the room. With minimal effort, Wanda could be in another dimension, or some other fix could be found.

But, it's in character for Emma to be unforgiving here. Her most powerful moment of growth came from the death of her Hellions, and being unable to save them from Trevor Fitzroy. And now, she's had to watch another crop of 'her kids' get cut down. She doesn't want a 'solution.' She's pissed and wants blood. It's totally on-brand for her to be all faster pussycat, kill, kill.

[Alan2099]

Wolverine should be the last person suggesting somebody be taken out back and shot because they hurt people while not in the right mind.

[Rang10]

Wolverine should be the last person suggesting somebody be taken out back and shot because they hurt people while not in the right mind.

This is true too. he murdered a lot of people while not being on "right mind'

I think this extends for Emma too, she was co-responsible for Dark Phoenix

[Hizashi]

Wolverine should be the last person suggesting somebody be taken out back and shot because they hurt people while not in the right mind.

Except that Wolverine welcomes the same being done to him if he loses it, so I don't see hypocrisy here.

[Alan2099]

Except that Wolverine welcomes the same being done to him if he loses it, so I don't see hypocrisy here.

He may say that, but it's happened a hell of a lot of times and he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to let anyone kill him.

Somehow he's always gotten better, yet for some reason he doesn't think somebody else should be given that chance.

[Hizashi]

He may say that, but it's happened a hell of a lot of times and he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to let anyone kill him.

Somehow he's always gotten better, yet for some reason he doesn't think somebody else should be given that chance.

It's not like every time he lost it that he knew ahead of time that it was coming, or am I wrong? I'm not a Wolverine expert, that moment seemed in-character to me, and we know he would rather be killed himself then go through something like that again. Didn't he give Cyclops a sword as a preventative measure with that in mind?

If anything, it seems like maybe he should/would be more understanding in the aftermath.

[Rang10]

It's not like every time he lost it that he knew ahead of time that it was coming, or am I wrong? I'm not a Wolverine expert, that moment seemed in-character to me, and we know he would rather be killed himself then go through something like that again. Didn't he give Cyclops a sword as a preventative measure with that in mind?

If anything, it seems like maybe he should/would be more understanding in the aftermath.

Igf he did it on the first time, it woud avoid a lot of the murders he commited. ight now there isn't nothing that makes me sure that it won't happen again.

He is being hipocrite, but his only way to solve problems is stabbing people to death.

[Cane_danko]

Igf he did it on the first time, it woud avoid a lot of the murders he commited. ight now there isn't nothing that makes me sure that it won't happen again.

He is being hipocrite, but his only way to solve problems is stabbing people to death.

He’s the best at what he does. And what he does isn’t philosophy.