To Write a "Morally Dark" Wonder Woman

[Perseus]

I've often wondered how a story that genuinely examines both how a morally compromised Diana would turn out and what exactly that means. For the sake of not coming across as edgy for no reason or being realistic/dark without actually examining the larger philosophical and moral questions that come up.

My first instinct is to look at Diana's relationship with violence, by that I mean her willingness to kill. A well written Diana almost never touches a sword and shield, never kills henchmen or regular people or beings far below her power level (Max Lord being the exception due to circumstance), tries her best to solve an issue before it arises yet understands that sometimes she needs to initiate the fight, and when all other options have been exerted she is pragmatic and recognizes when a villain has gone to far for rehabilitation or even just imprisonment. Basically, she can kill but its at its core an absolute last resort. She doesn't enjoy it, she isn't angry, in fact there is almost a sorrow to it. When Diana "armors up" she isn't happy about it, I'm reminded about the scene in God of War where Kratos returns to his home to literally and metaphorically dig up his past by getting the Blades of Kaos, the music and camera angles and kratos's body language all portray a sorrowful yet necessary decision that he makes. Diana choosing to use a sword and shield, choosing to kill, should have the same impact.

And when she does fight to kill, she doesn't rage out or smiles in enjoyment. She's serious and turns quiet, a quiet Wonder Woman who is armed and willing to kill scares me more then the Wonder Woman that spits out insults and screams while charging into battle. No more tricks, no more fancy moves, no more warnings... just quick and efficient sword strikes to deliver quick deaths.

Diana is a warrior born, she has a warrior's spirit, and comes from a culture that values certain warrior traits. It's weird because I'm fine with her killing demons, parademons, brainless monsters, even old/new gods (because what is death to a god after all). But when you put her into a warrior mentality against mere mortals and sentient beings that aren't as powerful as her, then she is just a bully and a murderer.

So, a "dark" Wonder Woman to me is what happens when she chooses that path and doesn't come back. Maybe that seems obvious or I don't know, like the same as every other "dark" version of a hero. But, what about you guys? How would you go about writing a compelling "dark" Wonder Woman that isn't an elseworlds, that looks at the character and her morality now and finds a way to take her to a dark path?

[Mel Dyer]

We forget that Wonder Woman comes from a once-oppressed - violently, sadistically and politically oppressed - people. She is a feminist and an Amazon, ..but, she's an Amazon, who missed the chance to fight in the battles that defined her people. This freedom-loving is something almost biblical to her, because, for most of her life, she has come to it, through the culture of her Amazon nation - not firsthand experience. When she devotes herself to defending freedom, wherever it is threatened, ..it's a religious vow to her.

Anybody or anything, who challenges her stand on that, had better be ready to get its head brought off.

It's not the warrior-thing, the Xena thing, that makes her Wonder Woman. It's the Amazon thing and what that really means - why an Amazon would leave Paradise to risk her life to defend the world from tyranny, earthly and otherwise, ..with or without the affirmation of some dude, pledging his eternal love for her. That's what defines her, and that's what writers don't seem to articulate in the dark Wonder Woman story, ..and that's why there's no definitive DKR-type Wonder Woman story.

Wonder Woman carries her colors and her golden eagle into dark places...dark universes, where they mean nothing, ..and she, with Etta at her side, makes them mean something. I think that's the truth, the dark and bright of it - of what it means to be Wonder Woman.

For my money, Myrina Black is the Magneto of the Wonderverse. Myrina, is what happens, when Amazon ideals become fanaticism. In Myrina's eyes, the Amazon mission, bringing Man's World under loving submission of the Amazons, is something worth doing it, with Darkseid, ..to realize. We're blindsided, by the flash and pedigree of Grail, but, it's her mum, Myrina Black, we'd better be worried about, ..because she's ride-or-die, all the way. She's a fanatic, and she isn't coming up for air, ..until Amazons - her, especially - rule the world. Dark Wonder Woman is going to look something like that, I think...

Something, like Myrina.

[Gaius]

Hmm, well I guess The Hiketeia would be one place that explores morally dark stuff where she's put in the "no-win" scenario situation but Diana herself doesn't do anything particularly objectionable or morally dubious.
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I've often wondered how a story that genuinely examines both how a morally compromised Diana would turn out and what exactly that means. For the sake of not coming across as edgy for no reason or being realistic/dark without actually examining the larger philosophical and moral questions that come up.

My first instinct is to look at Diana's relationship with violence, by that I mean her willingness to kill. A well written Diana almost never touches a sword and shield, never kills henchmen or regular people or beings far below her power level (Max Lord being the exception due to circumstance), tries her best to solve an issue before it arises yet understands that sometimes she needs to initiate the fight, and when all other options have been exerted she is pragmatic and recognizes when a villain has gone to far for rehabilitation or even just imprisonment. Basically, she can kill but its at its core an absolute last resort. She doesn't enjoy it, she isn't angry, in fact there is almost a sorrow to it. When Diana "armors up" she isn't happy about it, I'm reminded about the scene in God of War where Kratos returns to his home to literally and metaphorically dig up his past by getting the Blades of Kaos, the music and camera angles and kratos's body language all portray a sorrowful yet necessary decision that he makes. Diana choosing to use a sword and shield, choosing to kill, should have the same impact.

And when she does fight to kill, she doesn't rage out or smiles in enjoyment. She's serious and turns quiet, a quiet Wonder Woman who is armed and willing to kill scares me more then the Wonder Woman that spits out insults and screams while charging into battle. No more tricks, no more fancy moves, no more warnings... just quick and efficient sword strikes to deliver quick deaths.

Diana is a warrior born, she has a warrior's spirit, and comes from a culture that values certain warrior traits. It's weird because I'm fine with her killing demons, parademons, brainless monsters, even old/new gods (because what is death to a god after all). But when you put her into a warrior mentality against mere mortals and sentient beings that aren't as powerful as her, then she is just a bully and a murderer.

So, a "dark" Wonder Woman to me is what happens when she chooses that path and doesn't come back. Maybe that seems obvious or I don't know, like the same as every other "dark" version of a hero. But, what about you guys? How would you go about writing a compelling "dark" Wonder Woman that isn't an elseworlds, that looks at the character and her morality now and finds a way to take her to a dark path?

Focusing on this bit but while I'm not a fan of DC usually handles Diana not having a no-kill rule one I thing I do like is she doesn't have the "I don't kill humans/human-looking things, but non-humans are fair game" which writers like to have certain other characters rules-lawyer their way around on. Obviously this doesn't mean cheering on her killing sentient or non-powered beings willy-nilly since you're right that it's like cheering on someone for stepping on a random ant but it's at least bit more consistency than from characters who fans like to praise their no-kill rule on.

[lotchj]

WHY??? Why make WW morally dark. WW should always stand in the light. WW is about love, not some murdering animal. WW shouldn't be written as being morally dark!!

[Koriand'r]

WHY??? Why make WW morally dark. WW should always stand in the light. WW is about love, not some murdering animal. WW shouldn't be written as being morally dark!!

It's not our Wonder Woman it's an alternative that's morally dark.

[Perseus]

WHY??? Why make WW morally dark. WW should always stand in the light. WW is about love, not some murdering animal. WW shouldn't be written as being morally dark!!

Like what Koriand'r said, I'm not looking to turn our main Diana dark. Rather, I'm asking what does a good dark version of the character look like. We have Injustice Wonder Woman for example, who is poorly written and not well executed. So, what is a well executed "dark" Wonder Woman? at least in your opinion.

Edit: In my post I did say "that isn't an elseworld" which tbh was a poor choice of words. I mean as in an alternative timeline where her origin and her most important history are still in tacked. i.e. Injustice originally being the same characters except joker does detonate the bomb and kills lois.

[I'm a Fish]

I always thought a morally dark WW would be jaded, emotionless and apathetic from centuries of living in man's world.

The idea of Diana being "corrupted" from living on earth (Kingdom Come style) never sounded far fetched to me, not if she was portrayed with realistic and relatable human emotions. I imagine it would be very frustrating to teach peace to a society that refuses to listen (assuming society would refuse to listen, which also isn't terribly far fetched). Especially if you add to that a WW84 style situation where her friends have died over the years causing her to isolates herself so she would have to experience that loss again. That kind of prolonged isolation really messes people up.

So I think a real dark Wonder Woman (who isn't a murder happy barbarian) would just be a terribly disinterested figure. At some point I would imagine that apathy would turn to rage and resentment on humanity. I think she would have to witness a lot of carnage and betrayal, and have no human relationships or attachments to even get close to that point.

Edit: Basically Wonder Woman suffered from centuries of burn-out.

[John Venus]

Since the opposite of love is apathy. A morally dark Wonder Woman would be apathetic, does not care about the truth, does not believe in redemption or the inherent goodness or mankind, would likely be bottling up her anger and emotions, would let the world burn down even though she has the power to save it and just looking at her wrong would be enough of a reason for her to kill you.

[Gaius]

I always thought a morally dark WW would be jaded, emotionless and apathetic from centuries of living in man's world.

The idea of Diana being "corrupted" from living on earth (Kingdom Come style) never sounded far fetched to me, not if she was portrayed with realistic and relatable human emotions. I imagine it would be very frustrating to teach peace to a society that refuses to listen (assuming society would refuse to listen, which also isn't terribly far fetched). Especially if you add to that a WW84 style situation where her friends have died over the years causing her to isolates herself so she would have to experience that loss again. That kind of prolonged isolation really messes people up.

So I think a real dark Wonder Woman (who isn't a murder happy barbarian) would just be a terribly disinterested figure. At some point I would imagine that apathy would turn to rage and resentment on humanity. I think she would have to witness a lot of carnage and betrayal, and have no human relationships or attachments to even get close to that point.

Edit: Basically Wonder Woman suffered from centuries of burn-out.

I think apathetic/burn-out would be a way to look at it, I think Diana’s idea of giving up on humanity wouldn’t be by becoming a conquerer but just going back to living in paradise on Themyscira.

[VonHammersmark]

A morally compromised Wonder Woman is a devout ideologue, one who’s completely forsaken truth and love to pursue a supposedly “good” cause with blind, furious religious zeal. Begins with a blue-checked twitter account and before you know it, she’s setting up “reeducation camps” for heretics. That’s the Dark Wonder Woman that exists in all of us

[Pinsir]

Wonder Woman: True Amazon has a dark origin for the character. She basically kills and cripples a lot of other Amazons through her hubris.

[Lightning Rider]

I don't think the "violence" aspect is all that interesting, I think the "darkness" has to tap into something else.

I'd be interested in seeing what happens if somehow, her gods ask her to do something against mankind in order to preserve their own power. Usually she has no problem bucking against a god when the are acting out individually for a clearly selfish purpose, but imagine if her patron goddesses gave her a mandate to persecute members of an anti-pagan religious organization or forcefully relocate a population from sacred ground. There would have to be something in the story, like the Amazons suffering a really big loss, for her to take that leap and ally herself with gods over mortals.

A morally compromised Wonder Woman is a devout ideologue, one who’s completely forsaken truth and love to pursue a supposedly “good” cause with blind, furious religious zeal. Begins with a blue-checked twitter account and before you know it, she’s setting up “reeducation camps” for heretics. That’s the Dark Wonder Woman that exists in all of us

Interesting angle. I could see a story where she takes up a cause and gets so obsessed with it that her empathy and compassion are drowned out and her zealotry makes her go too far. That makes sense for her character.

[WonderLight789]

I don't think the "violence" aspect is all that interesting, I think the "darkness" has to tap into something else.

I'd be interested in seeing what happens if somehow, her gods ask her to do something against mankind in order to preserve their own power. Usually she has no problem bucking against a god when the are acting out individually for a clearly selfish purpose, but imagine if her patron goddesses gave her a mandate to persecute members of an anti-pagan religious organization or forcefully relocate a population from sacred ground. There would have to be something in the story, like the Amazons suffering a really big loss, for her to take that leap and ally herself with gods over mortals.



Interesting angle. I could see a story where she takes up a cause and gets so obsessed with it that her empathy and compassion are drowned out and her zealotry makes her go too far. That makes sense for her character.

I don't see it.

[Gaius]

I don't think the "violence" aspect is all that interesting, I think the "darkness" has to tap into something else.

I'd be interested in seeing what happens if somehow, her gods ask her to do something against mankind in order to preserve their own power. Usually she has no problem bucking against a god when the are acting out individually for a clearly selfish purpose, but imagine if her patron goddesses gave her a mandate to persecute members of an anti-pagan religious organization or forcefully relocate a population from sacred ground. There would have to be something in the story, like the Amazons suffering a really big loss, for her to take that leap and ally herself with gods over mortals.



Interesting angle. I could see a story where she takes up a cause and gets so obsessed with it that her empathy and compassion are drowned out and her zealotry makes her go too far. That makes sense for her character.

Hmm, well I guess that's Injustice Diana but Tom Taylor just used that as reason for her to simp about super extra special awesome Superman is because that's just how he writes Diana on a usual day.

[Perseus]

I'm really liking all of these ideas, there is clearly potential here that could be explored with the right writer.