Obi-Wan Kenobi

[DrNewGod]

Vader not killing Obi Wan is a bigger problem for me than Obi Wan not killing Vader. Both Obi Wan and Reva only survive because Vader came down with a severe case of plot-induced stupidity and kept on refusing to finish off his opponents. He keeps making the classic stupid villain mistake of assuming his opponents will die on their own and leaving instead of acting in-character and ensuring they die.

True. I regard anger to be DV's primary fault, but followed closely by arrogance, which is how I make peace with such bad decisions from him.

[David Walton]

Perhaps?

I think another wrinkle in the dynamic is the Chosen One prophesy. Kenobi seemed to become a true believer, despite early reservations. Perhaps he still held out some small hope that Vader could be saved, brought back from the dark side, and achieve his destiny.

My guess is that Kenobi, Yoda, Bail, etc., all believed the Skywalker twins were of vital importance....but Kenobi may have thought the kids would be what pulled Anakin back from the dark side. A father's love, and all that yknow? I don't think Kenobi would intentionally put the burden of killing Vader on Luke or Leia's shoulders, I think he intended on using them to save Anakin from himself. But after the battle in Cloud City where Vader *knows* Luke is his kid and nearly kills him anyway? That's probably when Kenobi (and Yoda) start thinking that Luke will have to kill Vader, rather than redeem him.

Perhaps at that point Kenobi thinks they've been misunderstanding the prophesy the whole time; it was never Anakin who would balance the Force, but his children. And in that way, it's still Anakin who brings it about, so the prophesy is still true....from a certain point of view.

I think in REBELS Darth Maul asks if Luke is the chosen one and Obi-Wan says yes.

[David Walton]

True. I regard anger to be DV's primary fault, but followed closely by arrogance, which is how I make peace with such bad decisions from him.

You could argue that Darth wasn't able to kill Obi-Wan until around the time period of ANH when he'd gained some emotional distance from his former master. It's like a glitch in his brain, he just can't get past it. But he justifies it to himself by saying he wants to torture Obi-Wan in their first post ROTS encounter.

Though honestly it's probably best for continuity's sake if they hadn't met again until ANH! It's just a question of if the trade-off is worth it.

[Ascended]

I think in REBELS Darth Maul asks if Luke is the chosen one and Obi-Wan says yes.

I think you're right? Maybe Kenobi came to the realization sooner than I thought.

Though honestly it's probably best for continuity's sake if they hadn't met again until ANH! It's just a question of if the trade-off is worth it.

Part of me says no; the extra stuff they shoved between the films distills and weakens some major thematic story beats from the original films.

But another part of me says that, flaws and all, the show added more than it took away, and the final battle was almost worth the price of admission all on its own. Some stupid moments and awkward dancing around canon aside, the characters' overall stories are better because of the show.

[DrNewGod]

...another part of me says that, flaws and all, the show added more than it took away, and the final battle was almost worth the price of admission all on its own. Some stupid moments and awkward dancing around canon aside, the characters' overall stories are better because of the show.

Agreed. It was enjoyable and and did no real violence to the franchise story. What gripes I might have are insignificant, and far outweighed by how much I liked it.

[j9ac9k]

Vader not killing Obi Wan is a bigger problem for me than Obi Wan not killing Vader. Both Obi Wan and Reva only survive because Vader came down with a severe case of plot-induced stupidity and kept on refusing to finish off his opponents. He keeps making the classic stupid villain mistake of assuming his opponents will die on their own and leaving instead of acting in-character and ensuring they die.

I can feel the conflict within him...

[The Cool Thatguy]

Had similar thoughts, but I think it fits better with the New Hope line about "Last time I was but the learner." The fight in Kenobi keeps that true....from a certain point of view. I can believe that Vader could come to that conclusion after the beatdown he got. But if Kenobi had barely escaped that final fight, Vader's line in the film wouldn't make as much sense.

Y'know, insofar as the canon has *ever* made sense.

In reality, Vader has spent ten years hunting Jedi and doing whatever awful things Palpatine told him to, while Kenobi just got cynical and old. Vader likely should have won the fight with little more effort than he won the first fight earlier in the season, whether Kenobi had got his groove back or not. Being inspired to fight again does not undo a decade of sitting on your ass.

All that time, Vader might have been fighting, but he was always punching down, backed up by thousands of Imperial soldiers.

This was probably Vader's first fight in his own weight class, against someone who wasn't intimidated by his reputation and someone smart enough to figure out his weaknesses.

[Ascended]

That's a good point, and you're not wrong.

But does that equal Kenobi sitting around for a decade? Vader may have been punching down, backed up by stormtroopers, but Kenobi wasn't doing *anything.*

Still, you have an excellent point.

[DrNewGod]

All that time, Vader might have been fighting, but he was always punching down, backed up by thousands of Imperial soldiers.

This was probably Vader's first fight in his own weight class, against someone who wasn't intimidated by his reputation and someone smart enough to figure out his weaknesses.

That's a good point, and you're not wrong.

But does that equal Kenobi sitting around for a decade? Vader may have been punching down, backed up by stormtroopers, but Kenobi wasn't doing *anything.*

Still, you have an excellent point.

These are reasons I hope the S2 team can resist having OWK match or exceed his abilities at the end of S1. Ep IV makes no sense if Obi-Wan doesn't decline.

[Tofali]

I'll be shocked if there will be a season 2. The only worthwhile thing in the whole show was Anakin and Obi-Wan briefly talking every thing outside these two was uninteresting to me but I'm sure i'm in the minority in this

[David Walton]

I'll be shocked if there will be a season 2. The only worthwhile thing in the whole show was Anakin and Obi-Wan briefly talking every thing outside these two was uninteresting to me but I'm sure i'm in the minority in this

I think there's a lot of potential in a broken Obi-Wan navigating the realities of the empire while holding out hope. But I think they need to avoid having Obi-Wan and Vader interact. The more they come into contact, the more it dilutes the poignance of their eventual conflict in ANH

[Jokerz79]

Excellent video on how Obi-Wan's fighting in the Series harmonized all other versions of him fighting.

https://youtu.be/D6SQm65VMbU

[ChrisIII]

I'm reading the Leia novel by Claudia Gray and it seems a bit odd that Leia initially has no idea about the Rebellion in the book, given that she knew about at least a proto-Rebel group (The Path).


Oh well, Disney might've cleaned up some of the continuity but I guess they still make mistakes.

[ZeroBG82]

I'm reading the Leia novel by Claudia Gray and it seems a bit odd that Leia initially has no idea about the Rebellion in the book, given that she knew about at least a proto-Rebel group (The Path).


Oh well, Disney might've cleaned up some of the continuity but I guess they still make mistakes.

They aren't quite the same thing. The Path is about trying to help people escape the Empire's cruelty. And also helping the Jedi. It works against the Empire's interests, but isn't really fighting or actively trying to stop, slow down, or overthrow the Empire.

The Rebellion, on the other hand, is very much about sticking a more active wrench in the Empire's gears. The one perhaps leads to the other, in the grand scheme. But it's not at all a foregone conclusion that something like The Path will lead to a more active Rebel movement.

[godisawesome]

I'm reading the Leia novel by Claudia Gray and it seems a bit odd that Leia initially has no idea about the Rebellion in the book, given that she knew about at least a proto-Rebel group (The Path).


Oh well, Disney might've cleaned up some of the continuity but I guess they still make mistakes.

They aren't quite the same thing. The Path is about trying to help people escape the Empire's cruelty. And also helping the Jedi. It works against the Empire's interests, but isn't really fighting or actively trying to stop, slow down, or overthrow the Empire.

The Rebellion, on the other hand, is very much about sticking a more active wrench in the Empire's gears. The one perhaps leads to the other, in the grand scheme. But it's not at all a foregone conclusion that something like The Path will lead to a more active Rebel movement.

Andor will probably cover this better, but right now before that show, we’ve got several nascent but completely unconnected “proto-Rebel” groups that actually have good reasons not to associate with or be associated with each other.

The Path is mostly an Underground Railroad for the Jedi and Force Sensitives.

The Cloud Raiders are a swoop gang on the fringe of Galactic society primarily opposing the Empire’s associated crime syndicates.

Saw’s Partisans are are ex-Separatsist who became co-belligerents against the Separatists, but were never loyal to the Republic’s stated cause and likely feel justified now.

Mon Mothma’s an Imperial Senator who was intially an internal reformist with other political allies.

The Mon Cala were loyal supporters of the Republic who quietly built a defense fleet when the Empire turned sour on them, while the Twi’leks are about to have to become a mirror image of the Partisans.

The Rebel Alliance is just that - literally an alliance of groups who are too weak, decentralized, and opposed to actually try and overthrow the Empire until united.