Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Frontier]

I wonder if they'll ever do anything with Obi-Wan's little brother. Obi-Two Kenobi?

[Kirby101]

I would say "powerful" in that he'd be a major influence to the one person who would go on to defeat Vader/turn him from the dark side. But then that depends on how much of that story you believe Lucas had planned out when he made Ep. 4.

That's a fan explanation, as good as any. But we know Lucas did not have the trilogy mapped out. I can only conclude he meant something else when he wrote that, but did not pursue that in the next movies.

[ChrisIII]

I wonder if they'll ever do anything with Obi-Wan's little brother. Obi-Two Kenobi?

Think it's sort of a call-back to an intriguing piece of 'dead' canon. Basically in ROTJ's script Obi-Wan's description of events in the past is longer and contains details that would've led to a very different prequel trilogy-one detail being that Anakin/Vader didn't know Padme (or whoever was the mother at the time) was pregnant, and also that Obi-Wan entrusted his brother Owen to raise Luke(!). Although it was cut from the movie, it remained in the novel adaptation and therefore was kind of semi-canon for many years. It was even thought for a while that Obi-Wan was a Tatooine native due to this(!) Of course, Attack of the Clones pretty much put that to rest for good, although I suppose in a weird way they could make it canon say if, Cleigg adopted an orphan on a visit to Stewjon or something.

[Zagre]

- Killing military lackeys is one thing, but most of Anakin's Life he protected the innocent. Still not convinced he would kill innocent children so quickly. Especially order 66
- Some his lines were stupid "You made me this way" (No Anakin, you pretty much did that yourself)

Pretty much agree with the first, it felt a bit jarring. The second though, I can see Anakin saying that, even if it's not really true. He has a nasty tendency to balme other people for his decisions.

[godisawesome]

- Killing military lackeys is one thing, but most of Anakin's Life he protected the innocent. Still not convinced he would kill innocent children so quickly. Especially order 66
- Some his lines were stupid "You made me this way" (No Anakin, you pretty much did that yourself)

Pretty much agree with the first, it felt a bit jarring. The second though, I can see Anakin saying that, even if it's not really true. He has a nasty tendency to balme other people for his decisions.

I actually think being willing and quick to target innocent civilians is perfectly in keeping with Vader - albeit as something that he never takes pleasure in, with the darkside energy from that coming from self-loathing at what he’s become.

I mean, his first darkside action was slaughtering a entire village out of anger for his mother’s death,a new then being horrified because he knew he had crossed a line with the children. And Lucas showed him specifically killing the younglings to make it clear he was a villain at that point, no “anti-“ about it; still, Lucas portrayed it as something he was cold when doing, and compiled it and everything else into Anakin’s crying on Mustafar.

Vader’s a great example of how just having guilt over one’s actions doesn’t in and of itself make a villain sympathetic or set them on a course for redemption; he just takes the guilt and makes it self-loathing that fuels his other, more motivated crimes, until Luke manages to get through to him by showing he’s a better man than Anakin was.

The way Vader walked through the street quietly and quickly (in comparison) killing civilians fits this MO.

[j9ac9k]

I think Anakin was kind of special. You have to do a certain kind of training to be able to become a Force Ghost.

I'd love to see Vader become aware of the training Obi-Wan has been doing so he ends up spending all his "tank time" practicing so he's able to become a FG after his death.

One thing I always wondered. What did Lucas have in mind when Obi-Wan allowed himself to be struck down by Vader, claiming "I will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine." The finale shows he has become a god-like presence when he talks to Luke, but in ESB he is just a Force ghost and not all-powerful, he actually can do nothing but appear to a Force sensitive person. Now I don't care about the fan explanations for this. But I do wonder what Lucas had in mind. Was there an idea for a Force-God Obi-Wan in future movies?

Expectations of what a Jedi can do has increased exponentially over time, but being able to turn yourself into a ghost upon death and communicate with the living is pretty powerful. I mean, even by return of the Jedi, Luke lifting C3-P0 around seemed like a big deal.

[Kirby101]

I'd love to see Vader become aware of the training Obi-Wan has been doing so he ends up spending all his "tank time" practicing so he's able to become a FG after his death.


Expectations of what a Jedi can do has increased exponentially over time, but being able to turn yourself into a ghost upon death and communicate with the living is pretty powerful. I mean, even by return of the Jedi, Luke lifting C3-P0 around seemed like a big deal.

That is very far from more powerful than you can possibly imagine. And again, you're giving fan apologetics, not talking about what Lucas might have had in mind.

[Username taken]

I took the "more powerful than you can imagine" line as basically Obi-Wan saying that he will become functionally immortal (as a Force Ghost) and will still influence things after his death.

Which he did in Episode 4 when he told Luke to use the force to destroy the Death Star instead of the onboard target system of the X-wing.

Ultimately, one could argue that Obi-Wan becoming a force ghost and guiding Luke to Dagobah, and monitoring him afterward led to the downfall of Darth Vader and the Empire.

All this might not have happened if Darth Vader didn't strike down Obi-Wan.

[Frontier]

I'd love to see Vader become aware of the training Obi-Wan has been doing so he ends up spending all his "tank time" practicing so he's able to become a FG after his death.

I don't know how long the current Vader comic will run but Greg Pak might do something with it since he's writing Vader in the lead up to RoTJ.

[Kirby101]

I took the "more powerful than you can imagine" line as basically Obi-Wan saying that he will become functionally immortal (as a Force Ghost) and will still influence things after his death.

Which he did in Episode 4 when he told Luke to use the force to destroy the Death Star instead of the onboard target system of the X-wing.

Ultimately, one could argue that Obi-Wan becoming a force ghost and guiding Luke to Dagobah, and monitoring him afterward led to the downfall of Darth Vader and the Empire.

All this might not have happened if Darth Vader didn't strike down Obi-Wan.

Yes, one could come up with all kinds of fan explanations for what he said. And they are all perfectly valid as far as the story. But I truly doubt that is what Lucas had in mind when he first wrote it. My guess is it changed, as so much of the story changed as they went forward and other writers took over. But I can see that I am the only one who is thinking about this and not just trying to make it fit the movies.
Moving on, I'll stick to the show. I think Obi-Wan would not have mentioned his brother if they did not have plans for him.

[j9ac9k]

That is very far from more powerful than you can possibly imagine. And again, you're giving fan apologetics, not talking about what Lucas might have had in mind.

I think you're missing my point. You appear to think Lucas must have had something more in mind with the term "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" because to you, rising from the dead doesn't seem so powerful. (I mean, Christ supposedly did it and we're all still talking about it) I'm suggesting it's possible what we saw is what he had in mind and it's your own expectations that leads you to assume he had something greater planned. I of course don't know anything about Lucas's plan, just pointing that out.

[Kirby101]

I think you're missing my point. You appear to think Lucas must have had something more in mind with the term "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" because to you, rising from the dead doesn't seem so powerful. (I mean, Christ supposedly did it and we're all still talking about it) I'm suggesting it's possible what we saw is what he had in mind and it's your own expectations that leads you to assume he had something greater planned. I of course don't know anything about Lucas's plan, just pointing that out.

Hmm. Perhaps, it doesn't work for me, but I see your point. Too bad we never got Lucas' explanation. You wonder what he did have planned. I mean he barely got Star Wars made (Spielberg and Coppola had to intervene) And he had no idea if it would make money, let alone be a giant hit. So I don't think he was thinking, "Yeah, this will be a trilogy." I think he didn't plan beyond A New Hope, "Episode 4" not withstanding. If he had a big trilogy planned, we would never had seen the Christmas Special.
He might have not had anything more in mind, he just needed Obi-Wan to lose the duel so he could guide Luke later. I mean Vader didn't even strike him down, he just gives up and disappears. What's up with that? And please, no post hoc fan explanations, it all looks very different than what they eventually made of it.
Anyway, I have rambled enough on all this. At least we now know how Obi-Wan survived in the desert so long, he had a job at the meat packing plant. He was so clever calling himself Old Ben Kenobi instead of Obi-Wan Kenobi, the Empire would never figure it out when they were looking for the most wanted Jedi in the Galaxy.

[Scott Taylor]

For me, as someone watching the movie back in 1977, it seemed "more powerful than I could imagine" when Obi-Wan was able to speak to Luke during the assault on the Death Star. The line was fulfilled in that very movie. I don't think Lucas had anything else in mind at the time he made the film, how could he?

[Kirby101]

For me, as someone watching the movie back in 1977, it seemed "more powerful than I could imagine" when Obi-Wan was able to speak to Luke during the assault on the Death Star. The line was fulfilled in that very movie. I don't think Lucas had anything else in mind at the time he made the film, how could he?

I agree, sort of. That was the pay off, but when they went forward with trilogy, I was expecting more than a Force Ghost. I thought he would be a more powerful entity that could do more than only talk to Jedi. I just sensed that Lucas meant it to be more. Like a disturbance in the Force.

[DrNewGod]

I agree, sort of. That was the pay off, but when they went forward with trilogy, I was expecting more than a Force Ghost. I thought he would be a more powerful entity that could do more than only talk to Jedi. I just sensed that Lucas meant it to be more. Like a disturbance in the Force.

Like you, i wonder what Lucas meant. That would include the possibility of it just being one of those lines he threw out there because it sounds like something a 1930s serial character might have said.