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  1. #1
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    Default Shaka of Virgo vs Absolutely Everyone In the Fate Franchise

    Speed is equalized across the board. Standard starting distance.

    1. Is there any one Fate character who can beat him under these conditions?
    2. Excluding anyone who wins in 1, any combination of three?
    3. Excluding winners of 1 and 2, what if every other combat viable character in the franchise comes after him at once?
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  2. #2
    Mokkori... FrenchGemini's Avatar
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    I am not familiar at all with the Fate franchise, but a quick search shows me top speeds in the super/hypersonic range.

    In Saint Seiya, the 7th sense, that all Gold Saints possess, explicitly allows one to move at the speed of light, so blitz?

    Furthermore, Shaka is one of the most dangerous Goldies (bar Shion, Saga, and perhaps Dohko), due to his ability to remove up to three people's senses at the same time(one sense by one sense, though). He also has a shield allowing him to only bleed a little when taking three basic attacks from three other Gold Saints (in the anime, those were replaced with Galaxian Explosion, Excalibur and Diamond Dust). On top of that, he has an energy attack that damaged the Cancer house during an energy fight against Saga, IIRC. Finally he is a master of illusions, managing to troll Shura, Camus, and Saga (who is no slouch at illusions himself) during their ascension of the Twelve Houses.

  3. #3
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    I equalized speed. Mainly thought of this thread because I feel like Shaka's trippy bullshit powers go well with a lot of Fate's
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitVyper View Post
    I equalized speed. Mainly thought of this thread because I feel like Shaka's trippy bullshit powers go well with a lot of Fate's
    His predecessor from the previous Holy War was even trippier. He had a technique that traps you and basically makes you choose your own death by forcing you to open one of several Buddhist doors. As I recall one of them ages you to death in a moment. Another inflicts every worldly disease on you at once.

    I've always mostly slept on Fate sadly. Sure is up my alley.

  5. #5
    The Beautiful Night Melchior's Avatar
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    Not in the correct order -

    2. Enkidu and Gilgamesh, both going all out with the Chains of Heaven and Ea and their protections up (or a third person with solid defenses) might be able to take Shaka, but that's a very long shot. A good grouping of the big Indian heroes would probably also do well.

    1. Okay, I can think of 4 characters from the Fate franchises that might be able to take out Shaka in a 1-on-1, but every single one of them is iffy with the knowledge that I have. First is Angra Mainyu. Angra Mainyu has the pecularity that, while a very weak Servant, it has superlative ability in killing humans (Servants are no longer human). If Shaka still counts as human, then Angra has a conceptual advantage. Should roughly boil down to Shaka not being able to negate Angra's attacks, I think. He is also heavily curse-aligned, so has a chance of being able to withstand the loss of his senses that Shaka can do. The second would be Francois Prelati, who is a Caster that specializes in Illusions. Her/His/Its skill is to the point that the world is fooled, so the illusions are just short of reality warping. Long story short, Zelretch, Satsuki Kurogiri, and Touko Aozaki have all killed Prelati, some of them multiple times in a single sitting, but were unable to get it to stick. It's implied that her illusions confuse the world enough that it does not realize she shouldn't be alive. That sounds like a high-enough level of illusionary BS to handle at least Shaka's illusions and sensory attacks. The last two are closely related since they are both confirmed as possible Saver-Class Servants: Buddha and Kiara Sessyoin. Saver/Buddha should be relatively simple to understand - he's what Shaka is ascending into. He should be proofed against most of Shaka's esoteric abilities, but I do not know if Buddha has enough combat ability to avoid a physical beatdown (at least long enough to fully charge his big Noble Phantasm). Kiara Sessyoin, if we are coming from a fully operating demonic boddhisatva/Beast III/R, can potentially take down Shaka. His esoteric abilities are close enough to Buddha's that Kiara's Nega-Saver ability has a good chance of kicking in, and that should shut down not only some of Shaka's offenses, but some of his defenses as well. Kiara's charm ability is on the level of 'if you can perceive me, it works' with bonuses against any creature with intelligence as well as any creature that can reproduce, and the defender has to pass the charm check for each of their senses. Her build should mostly be a counter to his.

    Still, not certain if any of those four could actually come out on top if Shaka actually went straight hand-to-hand against them. But I think they have the best chances of neutralizing or otherwise overcoming a significant portion of Shaka's offences and defences.

    Alright, a fifth possible one - False Rider from Fate/strange Fake. But mostly because I cannot think of how Shaka could defeat the concept of disease.

    3. Well, yes, Shaka would probably lose, but that's more that there will probably be enough meat shields that the really esoteric or weird stuff has a chance to come out to play. Like Quetzcoatl "I killed the dinosaurs, let me show you how, yes!", or Goetia shooting the energy from the last 5000 years of human history at him, the Greek gods going Voltron (canonically, Zeus is the crotch), Ort being Ort, Tiamat not being killable, Perfect Kojirou dueling Zero-Sword Musashi causing an infinity divided by zero error in reality, retroactive erasure from time, Black Barrel granting the concept of death, not counting more mundane issues such as Gae Bolg reversing casuality. Or Velber, I guess Velber count in this situation. In which case, Shaka's just one man getting jumped by an army - something is going to get through eventually.

    Obviously, a lot of this changes if speed isn't equalized.
    ---

    Sincerely,

    Melchior, the Geddon Knight

  6. #6
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    I could see the Chains of Heaven being effective if Gil gets a chance to use them, with Shaka being "the man closest to God" and all.

    I don't think Angra Mainyu/Avenger's gonna pull it off. Shaka's basically a Bodhisattva, and Avenger seems almost tailor made to get royally fucked over by something like his Six Paths Reincarnation thing. Alternately, if Shaka does qualify as human for Avenger's purposes, we're definitely cutting Gil's chances of doing anything by a lot.

    Francois sounds interesting. I'm imagining them both pulling drug trip reality manipulating illusion bullshit to the point of cancelling each other out so it just looks like they're staring very intently though I have the suspicion that, at the end of it all, she will find herself still standing in the Buddha's palm like Baldr.

    Personally, I was thinking Achilles Cosmos might be really effective in the second scenario. If it works as advertised and Shaka can't just overpower it (which might be iffy), its whole level playing field thing might negate some of Shaka's junk and force him to slug it out with his more direct attacks.

    I have a feeling that, by Fate rules, Shaka probably counts as having a high enough luck stat to not get killed by Gae Bolg. Obviously he has no particular luck feats, so I can't back that up, but everything about him is ridiculously auspicious.
    Last edited by BitVyper; 03-30-2021 at 10:37 PM.
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  7. #7
    The Beautiful Night Melchior's Avatar
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    I actually meant Enkidu the person of clay, Gilgamesh's best buddy/rival/equal. As in, Enkidu using his Chains of Heaven to try and tie down Shaka long enough for Gilgamesh to whip out something strong enough to take down Shaka. The question is if "the man closest to God" actually counts as divinity or not. If he does, then the chance of Enkidu pinning Shaka down greatly increases, otherwise, Shaka probably can get free.

    As for Angra Mainyu.... yeah, he's a real long shot. If Shaka counts as divinity, then Angra Mainyu's special trait should not kick in, in which case he's a gnat. If not, then there's a chance AM can win if he can actually land some hits, which is still.... a long shot, but better than some?

    Prelati's big thing is that she is one of the few that I can think of which can match Shaka's abilities with illusions and the senses. The way I see it, there's probably a 25% chance she's in Buddha's palm at the end, and another 25% chance she manages to maneuver herself into a position to win. Afterall, it's the spellbook she made to troll people with that made Caster Gilles in the 4th Fuyuki Grail War an actual combatant. The other 50% of the time, I'm betting Shaka will realize he's getting into a BS Illusion Battle, and start laying out enough AoEs that he gets lucky and takes Prelati out long enough to score a win.

    As for Gae Bolg, sure, Shaka might avoid a few uses, but he's basically trying to 1-v-1 an entire setting. And he's just not BS enough to completely no-sell the setting. So he's eventually going to be hit by something. Could be a snipe from outside space/time. Could be an arrow guaranteed to hit an unhittable target. Could be an orbital particle cannon shot. Could be a sword swing coming from infinite directions. Could be a spear (actually, there's a lot of possible Gae Bolg users....) that reverses casuality. Could be he uses his ultimate and it gets perfectly countered and turned back on him (Fragarach). Could be.....

    Well, you get the picture.

    I thought the Cosmos was the "deploy a world to soak an attack" Noble Phantasm, and that it was a different one that negated outside interference/divine blessings, and the like?
    ---

    Sincerely,

    Melchior, the Geddon Knight

  8. #8
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    Oh you're right, that's not Achilles Kosmos. It's hard to keep up with Fate stuff because it has this tendency to say something (reality marbles, multiple noble phantasms) almost never happens and then start throwing that thing around everywhere. I had just assumed they were both the same thing because I didn't realise Achilles has like five noble phantasms.

    Don't get me wrong though; I'm glad they realised reality marbles are cool and just started giving them to everybody. Unlimited Blade Works is like the least interesting one and it's still pretty cool.
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  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Gold Saints generally can go toe to toe with class 100 bricks due to attacking on an atomic level with their physical attacks while having a large degree of super strength, and many of their attacks and weapons can (allegedly, the series is largely about statements mixed in with hyperbole)destroy planets. Shaka himself has a level of defence that rivals Geminis offence. I don't see many, if any Fate character getting through his shield. Then there is his nifty soul riping move. Some characters might be abe to power their way out of it like Ikki did, but most likely can't:



    And no, Shaka isn't literally a God, by "closest to god", at the early part of the series meant he had access to the 8th sense. That's it. Any Gold Saint that obtains that number 8 is essentially on par in raw Cosmo with Shaka.

    Even obtaining the "9th" sense for a human is more akin to an "SSG" state than becoming an actual God.
    Last edited by Cody; 04-22-2021 at 05:58 AM.
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    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildling View Post
    His predecessor from the previous Holy War was even trippier. He had a technique that traps you and basically makes you choose your own death by forcing you to open one of several Buddhist doors. As I recall one of them ages you to death in a moment. Another inflicts every worldly disease on you at once.

    I've always mostly slept on Fate sadly. Sure is up my alley.
    I think that had more to due with the temple than anything else.
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  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    This is inevitably going to end up with Taiga getting at least a Bronze Cloth, isn't it?

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    This is inevitably going to end up with Taiga getting at least a Bronze Cloth, isn't it?
    Lol, maybe the Lionet cloth yeah.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    I think that had more to due with the temple than anything else.
    Dunno if I missed that being outright stated but I got the impression Shijima's "home security system" was something he came up with and would fall under his own techniques, at least some thought went into that era's Saints having some own moves and not just the legacy techniques we know. Since that technique or obstacle wasn't a thing in Shaka's time when he defends the same temple after all.

    Basically I thought it was a complex Cosmo barrier he left behind, just like blood left behind by Shaka absorbed into Shun's Cloth was able to manifest in the nick of time a fight-capable Shaka Force Ghost (which I guess would be another crazy feat for this thread).
    Last edited by Wildling; 04-21-2021 at 08:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildling View Post
    Dunno if I missed that being outright stated but I got the impression Shijima's "home security system" was something he came up with and would fall under his own techniques, at least some thought went into that era's Saints having some own moves and not just the legacy techniques we know. Since that technique or obstacle wasn't a thing in Shaka's time when he defends the same temple after all.
    Yeah it is, just check the vid I posted, its the exact same thing, but doesn't give the person it is being used on the chance to choose which realm their soul will go to, it's just random. Other than that, they are basically the same, only that Shaka can just use it at will.

    Basically I thought it was a complex Cosmo barrier he left behind, just like blood left behind by Shaka absorbed into Shun's Cloth was able to manifest in the nick of time a fight-capable Shaka Force Ghost (which I guess would be another crazy feat for this thread).
    I just assumed that it was part of the temple based on how it activated by being a deafening silence inside the temple before turning into a circle of doors. Could be wrong though, and perhaps he can use it at will like Shaka can. Still seems inferior though considering how comparatively quick it was used by Shaka.
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