The new Summers Family Tree in X-Men Legends #2 *spoilers*

[Rev9]

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/%22Sp...ne)_(Earth-616)

https://screenrant.com/xmen-cyclops-...-secret-comic/

Thanks, well personally I'm glad this sort of isn't cannon as per the family tree, I would prefer they limit the clones in the tree.To me kinship through cloning is extremely contrived

[gambitxremy]

Thanks, well personally I'm glad this sort of isn't cannon as per the family tree, I would prefer they limit the clones in the tree.To me kinship through cloning is extremely contrived

Oh true but I’m happy there’s at least a girl who is related

[witchboy]

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/%22Sp...ne)_(Earth-616)

https://screenrant.com/xmen-cyclops-...-secret-comic/

The Marvel Wiki page is blank so even they don't want to deal with her.

[gambitxremy]

The Marvel Wiki page is blank so even they don't want to deal with her.

True but it’s still canon

[patch]

Thanks, well personally I'm glad this sort of isn't cannon as per the family tree, I would prefer they limit the clones in the tree.To me kinship through cloning is extremely contrived

I totally agree with you as well. I’m generally fine with these characters and how they exist, but I wish Marvel used the term genetic manipulation or genetic engineering rather than overuse or improperly use the term “clone.” Good science fiction is still rooted in good science. By definition, a clone is an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical. Madelyne is a clone of Jean; Stryfe is a clone of Cable. Most other characters where they say ‘clone’ are actually created by genetic manipulation.

Being someone’s relative means having enough genetics to have similar physicalities, psychological profiles, personalities. So you are a product of your parents be it natural birth or otherwise engineered (i.e., in vitro fertilization is an example of this, and so would be being fully grown in a lab). Nate Grey/X-Man is a ‘son’ of Jean and Scott; Adam is a ‘son’ of Katherine and D’Ken.

Here’s where I’m a stickler with the science (and sorry to be a killyjoy lol): having some sequences of someone’s DNA grafted onto yours doesn’t make you related or a sibling. If you get a kidney from a non-relative, you’ve received that organ for some function and that kidney will still retain its donor DNA structure – but it doesn’t make you related to the donor. Even more so if you receive a bone marrow transplant; that marrow is the progenitor for new blood cells which will permeate throughout your body and may affect the genetics in other organs in your body (and make you a genetic chimera of sorts) but again you are not related to the donor (in fact 23andme won’t allow you to use their services if you’ve had a bone marrow transplant specifically because it will give you false familial info).

The current ‘main’ Sinister is a clone of Sinister with Thunderbird’s X-gene introduced (from inception) to ‘make’ him a mutant; Warpath, and John Proudstar if he’s back, are not embracing Sinister as a brother. Sinister grafted Havok’s x-gene sequences onto the Living Monolith to enable Abdol to absorb ambient cosmic energy; the Living Monolith is not a Summers relative. If Spider-Girl has certain x-sequences from Scott to grant her eye beams, he’s a donor yes, but they're not related (she’s essentially Gwen Stacy with additional genetic sequences added in). That’s also how I saw Gambit in the X-Men: The End run – in that reality, Sinister was trying to create a mutant ‘clone’ of himself by introducing Scott’s x-gene (much how he used Thunderbird’s in the 616-reality). Even if that Gambit was fully created as half of Sinister's DNA and half of Scott’s DNA, then if we’re going to get technical Scott would be Gambit’s father not brother.

[gambitxremy]

I totally agree with you as well. I’m generally fine with these characters and how they exist, but I wish Marvel used the term genetic manipulation or genetic engineering rather than overuse or improperly use the term “clone.” Good science fiction is still rooted in good science. By definition, a clone is an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical. Madelyne is a clone of Jean; Stryfe is a clone of Cable. Most other characters where they say ‘clone’ are actually created by genetic manipulation.

Being someone’s relative means having enough genetics to have similar physicalities, psychological profiles, personalities. So you are a product of your parents be it natural birth or otherwise engineered (i.e., in vitro fertilization is an example of this, and so would be being fully grown in a lab). Nate Grey/X-Man is a ‘son’ of Jean and Scott; Adam is a ‘son’ of Katherine and D’Ken.

Here’s where I’m a stickler with the science (and sorry to be a killyjoy lol): having some sequences of someone’s DNA grafted onto yours doesn’t make you related or a sibling. If you get a kidney from a non-relative, you’ve received that organ for some function and that kidney will still retain its donor DNA structure – but it doesn’t make you related to the donor. Even more so if you receive a bone marrow transplant; that marrow is the progenitor for new blood cells which will permeate throughout your body and may affect the genetics in other organs in your body (and make you a genetic chimera of sorts) but again you are not related to the donor (in fact 23andme won’t allow you to use their services if you’ve had a bone marrow transplant specifically because it will give you false familial info).

The current ‘main’ Sinister is a clone of Sinister with Thunderbird’s X-gene introduced (from inception) to ‘make’ him a mutant; Warpath, and John Proudstar if he’s back, are not embracing Sinister as a brother. Sinister grafted Havok’s x-gene sequences onto the Living Monolith to enable Abdol to absorb ambient cosmic energy; the Living Monolith is not a Summers relative. If Spider-Girl has certain x-sequences from Scott to grant her eye beams, he’s a donor yes, but they're not related (she’s essentially Gwen Stacy with additional genetic sequences added in). That’s also how I saw Gambit in the X-Men: The End run – in that reality, Sinister was trying to create a mutant ‘clone’ of himself by introducing Scott’s x-gene (much how he used Thunderbird’s in the 616-reality). Even if that Gambit was fully created as half of Sinister's DNA and half of Scott’s DNA, then if we’re going to get technical Scott would be Gambit’s father not brother.

I agree with what you most say.
Spider girl was made or born with cyclops DNA not grafted.
Yes Scott would be gambits father

If your body is created with someone’s else’s DNA then yes you are considered family but if you have someone’s DNA grafted on you or donated the no you’re not

[Rev9]

I totally agree with you as well. I’m generally fine with these characters and how they exist, but I wish Marvel used the term genetic manipulation or genetic engineering rather than overuse or improperly use the term “clone.” Good science fiction is still rooted in good science. By definition, a clone is an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical. Madelyne is a clone of Jean; Stryfe is a clone of Cable. Most other characters where they say ‘clone’ are actually created by genetic manipulation.

Being someone’s relative means having enough genetics to have similar physicalities, psychological profiles, personalities. So you are a product of your parents be it natural birth or otherwise engineered (i.e., in vitro fertilization is an example of this, and so would be being fully grown in a lab). Nate Grey/X-Man is a ‘son’ of Jean and Scott; Adam is a ‘son’ of Katherine and D’Ken.

Here’s where I’m a stickler with the science (and sorry to be a killyjoy lol): having some sequences of someone’s DNA grafted onto yours doesn’t make you related or a sibling. If you get a kidney from a non-relative, you’ve received that organ for some function and that kidney will still retain its donor DNA structure – but it doesn’t make you related to the donor. Even more so if you receive a bone marrow transplant; that marrow is the progenitor for new blood cells which will permeate throughout your body and may affect the genetics in other organs in your body (and make you a genetic chimera of sorts) but again you are not related to the donor (in fact 23andme won’t allow you to use their services if you’ve had a bone marrow transplant specifically because it will give you false familial info).

The current ‘main’ Sinister is a clone of Sinister with Thunderbird’s X-gene introduced (from inception) to ‘make’ him a mutant; Warpath, and John Proudstar if he’s back, are not embracing Sinister as a brother. Sinister grafted Havok’s x-gene sequences onto the Living Monolith to enable Abdol to absorb ambient cosmic energy; the Living Monolith is not a Summers relative. If Spider-Girl has certain x-sequences from Scott to grant her eye beams, he’s a donor yes, but they're not related (she’s essentially Gwen Stacy with additional genetic sequences added in). That’s also how I saw Gambit in the X-Men: The End run – in that reality, Sinister was trying to create a mutant ‘clone’ of himself by introducing Scott’s x-gene (much how he used Thunderbird’s in the 616-reality). Even if that Gambit was fully created as half of Sinister's DNA and half of Scott’s DNA, then if we’re going to get technical Scott would be Gambit’s father not brother.

Very well said, and to add to that we have alternate reality iterations, and now Krakoa clones logging almost similar memories(save the blind spots when cerebro is not updated).So I think for the reasons you gave and general streamlining of stories ,we need to keep cloning as a kinship device to an absolute minimum.

[Harasar]

this was handled in X-men v4. She was placed in stasis which is why she was still pregnant in that series. The arc ended without her giving birth and no child has been mentioned in any of her subsequent appearances. Either she is hiding the kid or she had a miscarriage but it hasnt been addressed



To me that seems more like an assumption. She could have stayed in present day and been the X-men 20 or so years in the future when that was supposed to be

Actually she gave birth to the child. It was mentioned in New Mutants #5. When Sunspot went to flirt with Deathbird, Smasher told him that she had a kid, and he reacted with something like "I love single moms".

[patch]

Actually she gave birth to the child. It was mentioned in New Mutants #5. When Sunspot went to flirt with Deathbird, Smasher told him that she had a kid, and he reacted with something like "I love single moms".

Great recall! - That happened so long ago and so quietly (just in those two panels) I think a lot of people (including myself!) forgot that she did actually give birth (Summers sure know how to leave their kids behind, don't they lol). Considering Hickman himself wrote that issue of New Mutants, that surely will come back to play but oddly conspicuous to have been left off the family tree. I guess for all of D'Ken's maneuvering (trying to achieve a Shi'ar-human hybrid), all the Neramanis achieved their own Shi'ar-human(mutant?) hybrids. Fits into Hickman's master plan of X-space expansion and integration to the Shi'ar empire (as seen in some of Moira's previous lives). Have to believe that Adam fits into that grander scheme as well then.

[Sutekh]

Great recall! - That happened so long ago and so quietly (just in those two panels) I think a lot of people (including myself!) forgot that she did actually give birth (Summers sure know how to leave their kids behind, don't they lol). Considering Hickman himself wrote that issue of New Mutants, that surely will come back to play but oddly conspicuous to have been left off the family tree. I guess for all of D'Ken's maneuvering (trying to achieve a Shi'ar-human hybrid), all the Neramanis achieved their own Shi'ar-human(mutant?) hybrids.

Hm, a Vulcan/Deathbird hybrid child. Did they find a way to get a kid with fiery (from dad) wings (from mom) in the Summers line that *doesn't* have any ties to Jean or the Phoenix force?

[Harasar]

Great recall! - That happened so long ago and so quietly (just in those two panels) I think a lot of people (including myself!) forgot that she did actually give birth (Summers sure know how to leave their kids behind, don't they lol). Considering Hickman himself wrote that issue of New Mutants, that surely will come back to play but oddly conspicuous to have been left off the family tree. I guess for all of D'Ken's maneuvering (trying to achieve a Shi'ar-human hybrid), all the Neramanis achieved their own Shi'ar-human(mutant?) hybrids. Fits into Hickman's master plan of X-space expansion and integration to the Shi'ar empire (as seen in some of Moira's previous lives). Have to believe that Adam fits into that grander scheme as well then.

Yeah, it seems conspicuous that Adam's heritage was finally revealed during current run and now all three Neramani siblings have their own heir, who, just so happens, to be a mutant as well. I think coup d'etat would be boring, so maybe they would end up with all three ruling together. and mutants would have a safe haven in Shi'ar Galaxy, just in case things go wrong on the Earth. Although, Deathbird and Vulcan's kid need to first actually be shown and even then he or she would probably be too young to rule. On the other hand, Xandra was also just born and yet she is already appointed as new empress.