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  1. #346
    Frenzied Bedlam Future Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    Maybe because they have been awful
    All of them? Like every appearance she's had outside of a solo book? No love for her time on X-Force circa Messiah Complex? Or her time in Uncanny back in 2004?
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  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    You are comparing apples to oranges. The problem with the story isn't that it's focused on Synch. The problem is that the other characters are treated like props. We don't know why Synch loves Laura. Is it her humor?Her smile?Her shiny claws?
    To switch it we don't know why Laura loves Synch. We get very very little about her feelings and thoughts. You can have a Synch focused story dealing with the Vault and still give us insight into Laura and Darwin. The brief, even though Hickman came up with that to, was 2 issues. He knew how many panels he had. What he wanted to achieve. In general any story that retells years are inherintly suspectible to these problems. The passage of time and it's effects are harder to portray without anchoring it in moments for us to relate to. That makes us feel that progress has been made and it's a actual person experiencing them. Not just a list of events with effects. Hickman wanted us to relate to Synch and experience the story through him. His feelings where suppose to tie us the to progression the story and the years do. Yet as has been pointed out before what do we know about Synch as a character after these issues? How could it not be any other character narrating those experiences. If we put any late teen-early twenty male character in that spot. All they need beyond their powers(witch are not personality) is parents who gave them general advice on what love is. No specific beats that have anything to do with Synchs humor. Experiences. Temper. And so on.

    It would have been so easy to add just some moments where we see Laura talk about how it has been for her. Tell us why she loves Synch. Why Darwin is a good friend. Multipurpose dialouge that advancs the plot and gives us insight. We didnt' get that. We don't get any Darwin dialouge.

    Hickman bet on that since Darwin and Laura gets reset and Synch doesn't. We only need to follows Synch journey since the other two's become void after the reset. He probably thinks this is a clever mirroring. So the story treats the other two characters like they are redundant. Darwin is there to get captured. Laura is there for Synch to fall in love with. Beyond the premise of it being them for the survival aspect of their powers that is their roles. So yes they are props. It's very much intended. And yes it still sucks.
    This doesn't make sense. Why show the vantage point of a character that won't remember. So Laura fans would rather in an issue that is being told from Synch perspective have him interpret Laura thoughts and put words into her mouth so they could feel that she got some development. That is creepier than fridging to me. That would have been sick.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  3. #348
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Rödney View Post
    All of them? Like every appearance she's had outside of a solo book? No love for her time on X-Force circa Messiah Complex? Or her time in Uncanny back in 2004?
    I'm speaking for me, I didn't like Laura appearences outisde of her solo since 2018

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This doesn't make sense. Why show the vantage point of a character that won't remember. So Laura fans would rather in an issue that is being told from Synch perspective have him interpret Laura thoughts and put words into her mouth so they could feel that she got some development. That is creepier than fridging to me. That would have been sick.
    What? We got Laura entire life inside the vaul by the eyes of Synch, but if we see her POV it is creepy?
    Last edited by Rang10; 04-02-2021 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #349

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This doesn't make sense. Why show the vantage point of a character that won't remember. So Laura fans would rather in an issue that is being told from Synch perspective have him interpret Laura thoughts and put words into her mouth so they could feel that she got some development. That is creepier than fridging to me. That would have been sick.
    I agree with this. I personally think this issue catapulted Everett's character to great new heights and for me it's about time.
    I do also understand the frustration Laura fans feel since she's gotten very little shine in the new era. But for what it's worth I saw her as truly heroic here and I hope her experience is followed up on.
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  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    I'm speaking for me, I didn't like Laura appearences outisde of her solo since 2018



    What? We got Laura entire life inside the vaul by the eyes of Synch, but if we see her POV it is creepy?
    No we got Synch's view of the life he lived with Laura and Darwin. You can accept it or not, maybe it's just that rare where a black dude gets a vantage point but we saw his perspective on their time together. The rest you all just ran with.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  6. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    You are comparing apples to oranges. The problem with the story isn't that it's focused on Synch. The problem is that the other characters are treated like props. We don't know why Synch loves Laura. Is it her humor?Her smile?Her shiny claws?
    To switch it we don't know why Laura loves Synch. We get very very little about her feelings and thoughts. You can have a Synch focused story dealing with the Vault and still give us insight into Laura and Darwin. The brief, even though Hickman came up with that to, was 2 issues. He knew how many panels he had. What he wanted to achieve. In general any story that retells years are inherintly suspectible to these problems. The passage of time and it's effects are harder to portray without anchoring it in moments for us to relate to. That makes us feel that progress has been made and it's a actual person experiencing them. Not just a list of events with effects. Hickman wanted us to relate to Synch and experience the story through him. His feelings where suppose to tie us the to progression the story and the years do. Yet as has been pointed out before what do we know about Synch as a character after these issues? How could it not be any other character narrating those experiences. If we put any late teen-early twenty male character in that spot. All they need beyond their powers(witch are not personality) is parents who gave them general advice on what love is. No specific beats that have anything to do with Synchs humor. Experiences. Temper. And so on.

    It would have been so easy to add just some moments where we see Laura talk about how it has been for her. Tell us why she loves Synch. Why Darwin is a good friend. Multipurpose dialouge that advancs the plot and gives us insight. We didnt' get that. We don't get any Darwin dialouge.

    Hickman bet on that since Darwin and Laura gets reset and Synch doesn't. We only need to follows Synch journey since the other two's become void after the reset. He probably thinks this is a clever mirroring. So the story treats the other two characters like they are redundant. Darwin is there to get captured. Laura is there for Synch to fall in love with. Beyond the premise of it being them for the survival aspect of their powers that is their roles. So yes they are props. It's very much intended. And yes it still sucks.
    Imo that's too much for one issue, Hickman had to set the Children of the Vault up as Villains on top of giving Synch character development. We didn't get much dialogue between Synch, Darwin or Laura but you could tell all three of them cared about each other from the art and their actions. That's ok for a comic, sometimes one page with art says more than 10+ lines of flirting, jokes, etc.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  7. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Imo that's too much for one issue, Hickman had to set the Children of the Vault up as Villains on top of giving Synch character development. We didn't get much dialogue between Synch, Darwin or Laura but you could tell all three of them cared about each other from the art and their actions. That's ok for a comic, sometimes one page with art says more than 10+ lines of flirting, jokes, etc.
    I;m just going to be real and as simple as possible with myself. What they are asking for would be like Professor Xavier popping up in the silent issue where Jean and Emma were in his head by morrison and going "wtf i'm just a prop in a story i'm being rescued." The point of the story was to infiltrate the vault and for one to make it back. Mission success. The rest is people doing the most which imo is cute at most.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  8. #353
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Imo that's too much for one issue, Hickman had to set the Children of the Vault up as Villains on top of giving Synch character development. We didn't get much dialogue between Synch, Darwin or Laura but you could tell all three of them cared about each other from the art and their actions. That's ok for a comic, sometimes one page with art says more than 10+ lines of flirting, jokes, etc.
    It's important to see it happening, not just some shallow story being told without space to breath

  9. #354

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    It's important to see it happening, not just some shallow story being told without space to breath
    But we did see it happening:


    Along with seeing:
    Everett and Laura working together to save Darwin
    Laura letting Everett go ahead because he was weaker

    This issue just did a lot more showing with art than telling through dialogue.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  10. #355
    Incredible Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    This doesn't make sense. Why show the vantage point of a character that won't remember. So Laura fans would rather in an issue that is being told from Synch perspective have him interpret Laura thoughts and put words into her mouth so they could feel that she got some development. That is creepier than fridging to me. That would have been sick.
    You are pushing the fact that it's narrated by Synch to the extreme point. That we can't trust dialogue becasue it's something that Synch might have misremembered or interuptated. Then the other two characters are even more inconsentual as we can't even be sure if they said or did what we where shown they did. In that sense it's Synch's story. Only Synch's story.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    You are pushing the fact that it's narrated by Synch to the extreme point. That we can't trust dialogue becasue it's something that Synch might have misremembered or interuptated. Then the other two characters are even more inconsentual as we can't even be sure if they said or did what we where shown they did. In that sense it's Synch's story. Only Synch's story.
    Honestly it seems some of ya'll are just mad that didn't happen so you could go. "well that's not valid because the story was from Synch perspective so any words ascribed to to her is through his lens. I'm glad hickman did it the right way where you all have to reach.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    But we did see it happening:


    Along with seeing:
    Everett and Laura working together to save Darwin
    Laura letting Everett go ahead because he was weaker

    This issue just did a lot more showing with art than telling through dialogue.
    Very true ,we did see.In fact people are complaining with a visual medium,as if the cues ain't there for us.A classic example is Darwin has adaptability mutation right? Now he just like Laura ,can regenerate tissue ,as seen from the blast the first time, and when he lost his arm. Yet in all panels we don't see Synch borrowing his power(except in issue 5 when they breach the membrane) ,which he easily could have.We are cued in to his relying on Laura instead ,definitely it could be a hint that he preferred to be closer to her as he already had an attraction to her.However we can also surmise, this symbiosis and helping each other brought them closer together. Hickman didn't need to hold our hand and tell us what Laura felt, we are told she was irritable when someone called her Laura but stopped minding when Synch did it.The cues are there ,but people are just being lazy.They suddenly cannot trust a character's narration of the ordeal, yet we get panels showing us that they grew incredibly close together.Even if there was no kiss on panel does that mean they were not in love? Hell I keep hearing of a ménage a trois on the summers moon house and yet I'm yet to see Scott kissing Emma on panel in the Hickman universe,does it mean they don't sleep with each other?
    Last edited by Rev9; 04-02-2021 at 01:29 PM.

  13. #358
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    You are pushing the fact that it's narrated by Synch to the extreme point. That we can't trust dialogue becasue it's something that Synch might have misremembered or interuptated. Then the other two characters are even more inconsentual as we can't even be sure if they said or did what we where shown they did. In that sense it's Synch's story. Only Synch's story.
    but is that a problem? He's been dead for 20 years and has been back for a year and a half with this being the first issue he's recieved any focus. He needed this to recontextualize and define him in the current era, more so than the other characters. His voice needed to be at the forefront. This issue did not damage Laura or Darwin in anyway and I feel the outrage against how things were presented to be a bit blown out or proportion. They'll be fine.

  14. #359
    Incredible Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Imo that's too much for one issue, Hickman had to set the Children of the Vault up as Villains on top of giving Synch character development. We didn't get much dialogue between Synch, Darwin or Laura but you could tell all three of them cared about each other from the art and their actions. That's ok for a comic, sometimes one page with art says more than 10+ lines of flirting, jokes, etc.
    It was never a prerequisite that it must be one issue(or two in the case of the arc). That is part of my critique. That two issues are to short for the story. That it's not allowed the room to breathe that it requires to portray the events and more importantly the character journey.

    Still with one issue more could be done to give us any insight into Laura or Darwin. More could absolutly be done as so very little actually was done. Without it we are back on that they are props to further Synch's story.

  15. #360
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Rödney View Post
    All of them? Like every appearance she's had outside of a solo book? No love for her time on X-Force circa Messiah Complex? Or her time in Uncanny back in 2004?
    I wasn't ON the boards back then to comment on them. But since you asked:

    NYX, NXM, X-Force, Avengers Academy were all great. NXM especially was the gold standard for using her in a team book. But in general all four books used her very well.

    Uncanny is kind of irrelevant, as it's almost all been retconned away.

    Arena started ok, but was undone by her deciding that attacking a Technopath controlling a Sentinent head-on was a brilliant strategy.

    ANXM Vol. 1 had its moments, but was seriously undermined by sidelining her in half the arcs (especially Trial of Jean Grey and Black Vortex. Vortex ESPECIALLY; the entire team gets blasted, and the ONLY ONE who is KO'ed in the attack is the one with the damn healing factor. And then she gets trapped in amber for the rest of the event) and the fact Bendis just couldn't get her voice right. The development with Cyclops was a huge missed opportunity. Ultimately, however, she should have gone to one of the JGS books (especially since the end of Arena implied it. We never did figure out A) how she escaped the Medevac chopper, and B) why Logan didn't try to find her afterwards).

    Wolverines again started out ok, but was seriously undermined by jobbing her to Mystique.

    ANXM Vol. 2 was just plain awful, and Fallen Angels wasn't much better.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

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