If the Avengers, FF, rest of Superhero stood up to the Government for Mutants?

[Rzerox21xx]

Its always been discuss why the nonmutant superhero teams don't do enough for the mutants, what if its the opposite, that the Avengers and FF decided to tell O.N.E. or any anti-mutant government agency or mutant hate group that if you miss with mutants, you have to go through us, or had they gotten involved in more of the mutant events. Many possibles like the Governments of the world considered them traitors and enemies. It happened in the bad futures where Sentinels went after the nonmutant superheroes. I can see Gyrich point out that the Super teams we rely to saved us turn their back on us and sided with the Mutants, so they are no better. Or the Avengers sending teams to deal with groups like Orchis, the Purifers, the Reavers, ect. those that active in genocide.

[Lady Midnight]

IIRC Cyke called at least one hero out back in HOX for not doing so, unless you count the "pardons" they offered Team Wolverine during the schism.

[Romy134]

I find it weird that Orchis can just freely make murdering Nimrods up in space and shield doesn't really care. Shouldn't Shield also be responsible for protecting Krakoa a sovereign nations of Earth?

[ZephyrSurf]

I find it weird that Orchis can just freely make murdering Nimrods up in space and shield doesn't really care. Shouldn't Shield also be responsible for protecting Krakoa a sovereign nations of Earth?

Shield has been dead for like 2 real life years before orchis happened.

I know X-people don't keep up with things outside of the X-world, but like c'mon.

[jwatson]

After devil's regin i honestly can't be too upset anymore, apparently they don't even stand up for themselves. I felt such a peace when Storm was all like "welp that's a human law, we have immunity." while flying high. Let the standard marvel heroes experience oppression for once. Though funnily it does already read like a bigger deal to them with fisk being all evil when imo Norman osborn is far worse than fisk.

[Rzerox21xx]

yeah I always wonder why the Avengers and other super teams, don't crack down hard on Anti-mutant groups that don't hide their genocidal acts and ways. have joint team efforts of both Avengers/X-MEN on Orchis or Sentinel manufacturing bases. I suppose the combination of both Thor and Storm would be overkill. There might be consequences as governments of the world will considered nonmutant Hero groups siding with the mutants as a act of war. or Wakanda considering assault on Storm and other mutants a act of agression against allies and Wakanda will send support or full backing. Imagine if the Space teams send in support and manpower resources. The Shiar declaring war on Earth if the mutants are being killed in numbers. Even debates with Reed Richards, Steve Rogers, and Tony Stark calling out the Graydon Creeds, the Strykers, the Trasks. The street level heroes will also get in on this. Hell imagine the Supernatural heroes like Strange and Ghost Rider. I would love to see how a Penance Stare would work on a Mutant-hating fanatic like the Purifers who think they are doing God's work. How about seeing Frank Castle gunning down anti-mutant groups that been committing hate crimes(usually involved murder and violence, Im sure it wont sit well that Frank will threaten whoever say Mutie or a racist slur with lethal force)

[ZephyrSurf]

After devil's regin i honestly can't be too upset anymore, apparently they don't even stand up for themselves. I felt such a peace when Storm was all like "welp that's a human law, we have immunity." while flying high. Let the standard marvel heroes experience oppression for once. Though funnily it does already read like a bigger deal to them with fisk being all evil when imo Norman osborn is far worse than fisk.

???

Dark Reign is like an entire like physical era of marvel.

Devil's reign isn't even gonna be like 1/10th of that.

[ZephyrSurf]

The actual not stupid answer is these books pretend like they're not the same world until they are and then again when they aren't.

That's just how it's always been, especially post I wanna say civil war.

Cause you go back even to the 90s and there's clear overlap that just don't exist no more, likely due to movie rights n stuff.

[jwatson]

???

Dark Reign is like an entire like physical era of marvel.

Devil's reign isn't even gonna be like 1/10th of that.

time isn't really the factor here, it's the experience. The story so far feels very "first they came for the mutants and now." well now it's the rest turn.

[cranger]

There are questions people can choose to spend their time on, but unless a writer wants lazy conflict none of this stuff ever actually matters in the stories because they are full of countless such "why doesn't X do Y" that if they were all addressed would make for a very boring and narrow shared universe.

[ZephyrSurf]

time isn't really the factor here, it's the experience. The story so far feels very "first they came for the mutants and now." well now it's the rest turn.

It just feels like another super hero registration thing, which has been happening forever and ever with no real tie to say "oh man, it's just like the mutants."

I mean it may seem odd considering every other mutant story is genocide, and the like, whereas with other heroes its a more "once every ten-ish years or so"

[jwatson]

It just feels like another super hero registration thing, which has been happening forever and ever with no real tie to say "oh man, it's just like the mutants."

I mean it may seem odd considering every other mutant story is genocide, and the like, whereas with other heroes its a more "once every ten-ish years or so"

It reads a little different. Civil war was more of a back and forth and more of a mandate that great affected the books outside of the main line primarily the x-books. This time around the mutants are immune from the story, at least from a legal standpoint and as such as still flying high but the marvel heroes are no longer immune. Even reed had to set up a deal with the government just to be able to operate his lab and we saw what happened there. I guess i would say the heroes are definitely being treated more harsh this time with even the everyday people agreeing super heros cause a lot of damage which is the argument that was usually used for just mutants for the most part.

[Habis]

Actually, the US government has very rarely taken direct action against mutants.

During the 80s NotRonaldReagan!'s government tried to pass a law to force mutants to register their powers arguing that it was similar to gun control, put pulled back when Cyclops's X-Factor defended New York against Apocalypse. At that time most X-Men were hiding (Storm's team were believed to be dead, Cyclops's team were passing for non-mutant superhumans), Xavier was in space fucking a bird, Magneto was running the school and training the New Mutants, and the most notorious and popular mutant superhero team were... Mystique's Brotherhood of Mutants, who were acting as enforcers of the US government while pretending to be heroes... These were confusing times, and non-mutant heroes were pretty confused themselves...

The government secretly sponsored Bastion's anti-mutant organization Operation:Zero Tolerance, but they hit the brakes in the last minute and sent SHIELD against Bastion when they realized Bastion was hunting and executing US citizens.

Mutants were mostly left alone during Civil War I. Other superhumans were arrested and incarcerated, but not mutans.

The Avengers attacked Utopia during the Avengers vs X-Men event, and the government condoned it, but it was because Wolverine and Beast had told them that the Phoenix would destroy the world.

Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers attacked Utopia, but it was mostly because of Osborn's hurt feelings (his team of "Dark X-Men" dumped him and returned to Utopia).

During Secret Empire the mutants actually struck a deal with Hydra and were left alone.

Most anti-mutant action is taken by secret agencies or terrorist groups. Why don't the 4F or the Avengers do something against them?

Well, they sometimes do, but these groups are secretive, and the X-Men tend to meet them before any other superhero group because these enemies target the X-Men and their relatives and friends.

The Avengers try to avoid getting into conflict with the government; they know there are lots of shady agencies doing lots of shady stuff, and not only against mutants, but also doing stuff like kidnapping and dissecting aliens or creating superhumans or spying on heroes, but if they fought the government that would hinder their ability to fight the world-ending threats that are their specialty. They still fight against these shady agencies when they discover them doing something illegal, and publicly denounce them, but they don't go out their way to find what the government is hiding...

As for 4F, they avoid politics and government stuff like the plague. They involve themselves mostly with cosmic stuff, and when they fight common villains is usually because these villains attack the 4F or make a very public mess in New York.

Also, you have to take into account, ALL heroes are very reactive... they mostly wait for villains to attack, and rarely track and hunt them, scouring them from the root. Even the X-Men rarely investigate who is building Sentinels, or hunt for villains like Mr. Sinister.

As for the Avengers in particular... they are famous for not taking care of their own... like, when one of their own disappears or is kidnapped or brainwashed, they mostly sit down and wait for them to appear on their own... they allowed Marcus to leave with a brainwashed Carol Danvers, they allowed the Presence to leave taking with him a brainwashed Red Guardian, they allowed the Wasp to marry the guy who claimed to have killed Hank Pym, and when said guy turned to be an insane Hank Pym, they didn't try to make him receive mental treatment; they didn't seek Wanda after she disappeared (save Hawkeye, who did some token effort), they didn't seek the Wasp after she disappeared (save Hank Pym), they didn't move a finger when the Avengers Academy students disappeared (save Hank Pym,again...), they never tried to help Bruce Banner control Hulk (but they have exiled him from Earth or captured him or killed him a few times...).

So you see, it's not that they don't care mutants... they just treat mutants like they treat their own...

[Dthirds3]

I find it weird that Orchis can just freely make murdering Nimrods up in space and shield doesn't really care. Shouldn't Shield also be responsible for protecting Krakoa a sovereign nations of Earth?

In a space station that was controlled by Iron man and the Illuminate

[jwatson]

Actually, the US government has very rarely taken direct action against mutants.

During the 80s NotRonaldReagan!'s government tried to pass a law to force mutants to register their powers arguing that it was similar to gun control, put pulled back when Cyclops's X-Factor defended New York against Apocalypse. At that time most X-Men were hiding (Storm's team were believed to be dead, Cyclops's team were passing for non-mutant superhumans), Xavier was in space fucking a bird, Magneto was running the school and training the New Mutants, and the most notorious and popular mutant superhero team were... Mystique's Brotherhood of Mutants, who were acting as enforcers of the US government while pretending to be heroes... These were confusing times, and non-mutant heroes were pretty confused themselves...

The government secretly sponsored Bastion's anti-mutant organization Operation:Zero Tolerance, but they hit the brakes in the last minute and sent SHIELD against Bastion when they realized Bastion was hunting and executing US citizens.

Mutants were mostly left alone during Civil War I. Other superhumans were arrested and incarcerated, but not mutans.

The Avengers attacked Utopia during the Avengers vs X-Men event, and the government condoned it, but it was because Wolverine and Beast had told them that the Phoenix would destroy the world.

Norman Osborn's Dark Avengers attacked Utopia, but it was mostly because of Osborn's hurt feelings (his team of "Dark X-Men" dumped him and returned to Utopia).

During Secret Empire the mutants actually struck a deal with Hydra and were left alone.

Most anti-mutant action is taken by secret agencies or terrorist groups. Why doesn't the 4F or the Avengers do something against them?

Well, they sometimes do, but these groups are secretive, and the X-Men tend to meet them before any other superhero group because these enemies target the X-Men and their relatives and friends.

The Avengers try to avoid getting into conflict with the government; they know there are lots of shady agencies doing lots of shady stuff, and not only against mutants, but also doing stuff like kidnapping and dissecting aliens or creating superhumans or spying on heroes, but if they fought the government that would hinder their ability to fight the world-ending threats that are their specialty. They still fight against these shady agencies when they discover them doing something illegal, and publicly denounce them, but they don't go out their way to find what the government is hiding...

As for 4F, they avoid politics and government stuff like the plague. They involve themselves mostly with cosmic stuff, and when they fight common villains is usually because these villains attack the 4F or make a very public mess in New York.

Also, you have to take into account, ALL heroes are very reactive... they mostly wait for villains to attack, and rarely track and hunt them, scouring them from the root. Even the X-Men rarely investigate who is building Sentinels, or hunt for villains like Mr. Sinister.

As for the Avengers in particular... they are famous for not taking care of their own... like, when one of their own disappears or is kidnapped or brainwashed, they mostly sit down and wait for them to appear on their own... they allowed Marcus to leave with a brainwashed Carol Danvers, they allowed the Presence to leave taking with him a brainwashed Red Guardian, they allowed the Wasp to marry the guy who claimed to have killed Hank Pym, and when said guy turned to be an insane Hank Pym, they didn't try to make him receive mental treatment; they didn't seek Wanda after she disappeared (save Hawkeye, who did some token effort), they didn't seek the Wasp after she disappeared (save Hank Pym), they didn't move a finger when the Avengers Academy students disappeared (save Hank Pym,again...), they never tried to help Bruce Banner control Hulk (but they have exiled him from Earth or captured him or killed him a few times...).

So you see, it's not that they don't care mutants... they just treat mutants like they treat their own...

Pretty much this but i feel this story in particular really highlights that. Maybe it's because mutants are immune and in a good place so the story does come off as "oh, well, guess that's just how they are." Reed looked out for his own. Tony is usually the one trying to recruit a team together. Luke was still basically "right is right, wrong is wrong" etc.