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  1. #196
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Do you think I was criticizing the character? I was proving that the shared universe is what sustains DC's investment in her (regardless of how poor it has been in the past).
    It has been poor most of the time. Her own universe would do far more good for her.

  2. #197
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    mystical41, I'm not attacking you when I ask this, but what Wonder Woman stories do you actually like? You keep talking about how "she is weaker than ever" so it seems like there was a period where you enjoyed her stories and her power levels, when was this?
    I genuinely wanna know mate.

  3. #198
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    mystical41, I'm not attacking you when I ask this, but what Wonder Woman stories do you actually like? You keep talking about how "she is weaker than ever" so it seems like there was a period where you enjoyed her stories and her power levels, when was this?
    I genuinely wanna know mate.
    There are plenty of stories i enjoyed. And most of them are Pre 52 stories.

  4. #199
    Jax City/Kill The FIremen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    The pros are Jiminez's"Gods of Gotham"and the Lois Lane interview issue.

    William Messner-Loebs use of the female Doctor Fate as a fridnd for Diana as well as having the Justice League visit her at Taco Whiz, her team up with the flash, and her frightening even the Joker.

    It's the story League of One which relied on the idea that Diana would care enough about heroes like Flash and Superman to sacrifice herself for them, and be strong enough to actually do it.

    It's all the team ups between Diana and Zatanna and Black Canary and Hawkgirl.

    It's also the fact that Wonder Woman would one day be cancelled if she wasn't part of the Justice League. Wonder Woman has rarely be amongst the best selling DC titles. Despite how many mistakes DC has made with the character, they still are unwilling to cancel her book because they get to portray her as the female flagship character in the trinity. (I'm not sure if the copyright issue is still in play, but DC could easily go back to the 1986 period where they give Diana 5 issues per year)

    Diana wouldn't get her own movie if she wasn't in the Justice League movies and BvS. Warner Brothers proved many times that they didn't have the balls to give her a movie before they could market it using characters like Supes and Bats.

    Wonder Woman would also get less new readers since she wouldn't be promoted in other books. Oh and Editorial would still mess up the book constantly.

    I remember reading that Kurt Busiek commented in a thread, DC has cleared up the copyright issue a while back. This was around post-Infinite Crisis. I'll see if I can find it.

  5. #200
    Jax City/Kill The FIremen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Gotta say though, that even if someone doesn't think any of the William Messner-Loebs stories were anything special, he did a lot to show how much could be done with Diana. His Wonder Woman crossed all genres.

    He explored the social issues she could deal with, the sci fi and fantasy, the surreal dreamworld (including the astral plane), gave her all kinds of supporting characters, showed Diana as someone funny, terrifying, intelligent, adventurous, creative, nurturing, confident, vulnerable, and yet maintained the idea that Diana is totally straight forward as a character and puts everything on the table when she meets someone. He used Hippolyta in a meaningful way, Vanessa Kapatellis and her mother in a meaningful way twice in a meaningful way, even used Etta Candy better than Perez did, used Circe as a grand villain as well as a manipulator capable of getting close to Diana.

    If there are three runs that show the diversity of the character it's his, Marston's and Jiminez.
    Damn. Now I am more excited. Why isn't this guy getting more work from DC? I've heard nothing but good things about his Flash run.

  6. #201
    Jax City/Kill The FIremen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Not really, it's pretty much a 1 for 1 copy of the Batman and Superman fight in Batman: Hush and no one came away from that fight thinking it wasn't another example of Superman jobbing to Batman, even if Batman used Lois as a hostage and said his arms really hurt after punching Superman with kryptonite fists. You can pretty much always find an out in these fights that prove, "Well Batman really didn't beat Superman."

    These fights aren't about raw power, just like the Batman vs Superman fights aren't. If Wonder Woman tricks Superman, she wins, which she does in League of One. Also, the images of League of One clearly show Wonder Woman dominating Superman and the reverse isn't shown to the same extent at all, I just reviewed the fight. There is three panels of Wonder Woman tossing Superman around, but in the text that accompanies it, WW says Superman is stronger so that cancels the imagery? She is also not trying to kill or severely hurt Superman either (the refuse is obviously true). Also, even if you object specifically to the WW vs Superman fight, she still takes out all the other members of the JL too and definitely over powers them.
    My mistake stake. She told Superman: "I knew I couldn't actually beat you in combat, but I had to weaken you before I told you about them."

    This nullifies your point you made. Diana knew she couldn't beat Superman from the start.

    There is three panels of Wonder Woman tossing Superman around, but in the text that accompanies it, WW says Superman is stronger so that cancels the imagery?
    Yes. Especially after Superman screams "enough!" and then proceeds to dominate the fight, which Diana says the line I quoted above. It cancels the imagery.

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