Pros and Cons of A Not Being In A Shared Universe

[DochaDocha]

I know that? Why? Who said she shouldn't be that powerful? Some guys on youtube and social media that scream feminazy conspiracy everytime they see a female character doing powerful stuff? Nobody needs to ask those people permission to write CM, WW or any other super powered female as a powerhouse capable of hanging with the boys. When Hulk, Thor, Superman etc got power upgrades out of their ····· most of those same comic fans don't say a word. But the moment is a woman, the world is coming to an end. We are in 2021. They need to know that sexism is not the tea anymore.

I think a lot of people think it's a bad idea tout a villain for seven years across a lot of movies as a guy who will take the combined might of all the heroes to beat, just to introduce a character right beforehand who can solo said villain. Carol's movie is literally the movie right before Endgame. At least it doesn't make sense to me.

And as far as the writing goes, they had to take a detour through Retcon City and also introduce some contrivances why she wasn't around during other major times of need (which is already a weakness of the MCU), and it's not like the movie would've been worse if they held off Carol's debut until after Endgame. Infinity War and Endgame have a lot of value from featuring characters with whom the audience have a history, all appearing in at least two feature films, and most of whom have a grudge to settle with Thanos or just the threat of Thanos. Carol doesn't check those boxes, and because of her lack of history, her insertion in Endgame just makes her presence in the movie feel awkward.

If you really want Carol to be the most alpha alpha of them all, introduce her after Thanos.

[Rightoya]

I think a lot of people think it's a bad idea tout a villain for seven years across a lot of movies as a guy who will take the combined might of all the heroes to beat, just to introduce a character right beforehand who can solo said villain. Carol's movie is literally the movie right before Endgame. At least it doesn't make sense to me.

If you really want Carol to be the most alpha alpha of them all, introduce her after Thanos.

I actually agree with that, but the whole Superman and Steppenwolf dynamic is literally the same, just on a lower scale.

[I'm a Fish]

I think a lot of people think it's a bad idea tout a villain for seven years across a lot of movies as a guy who will take the combined might of all the heroes to beat, just to introduce a character right beforehand who can solo said villain. Carol's movie is literally the movie right before Endgame. At least it doesn't make sense to me.

And as far as the writing goes, they had to take a detour through Retcon City and also introduce some contrivances why she wasn't around during other major times of need (which is already a weakness of the MCU), and it's not like the movie would've been worse if they held off Carol's debut until after Endgame. Infinity War and Endgame have a lot of value from featuring characters with whom the audience have a history, all appearing in at least two feature films, and most of whom have a grudge to settle with Thanos or just the threat of Thanos. Carol doesn't check those boxes, and because of her lack of history, her insertion in Endgame just makes her presence in the movie feel awkward.

If you really want Carol to be the most alpha alpha of them all, introduce her after Thanos.

It also just made Carol look bad for not being around, and Fury look bad for not calling her sooner.

[Gaius]

I imagine Kamala Khan replacing Carol is the long term eventually like with Sam and Bucky replacing Captain America nowadays.

Anyways back to WW, it's been brought up Donna (and Cassie) would lose a lot of their relationships given they've been Titans/YJ characters more than they've been WW characters but another possible benefit is it could finally cut the Gordian Knot and give Donna a simple origin without having to perform Olympic-level retconning.

[I'm a Fish]

Would Donna have half a dozen backstories if she didn't exists in a shared universe?

[Frontier]

Would Donna have half a dozen backstories if she didn't exists in a shared universe?

Well, part of the issue was Titans still using her in a world where Wonder Woman showed up way later than the other heroes.

[WonderLight789]

I think a lot of people think it's a bad idea tout a villain for seven years across a lot of movies as a guy who will take the combined might of all the heroes to beat, just to introduce a character right beforehand who can solo said villain. Carol's movie is literally the movie right before Endgame. At least it doesn't make sense to me.

And as far as the writing goes, they had to take a detour through Retcon City and also introduce some contrivances why she wasn't around during other major times of need (which is already a weakness of the MCU), and it's not like the movie would've been worse if they held off Carol's debut until after Endgame. Infinity War and Endgame have a lot of value from featuring characters with whom the audience have a history, all appearing in at least two feature films, and most of whom have a grudge to settle with Thanos or just the threat of Thanos. Carol doesn't check those boxes, and because of her lack of history, her insertion in Endgame just makes her presence in the movie feel awkward.

If you really want Carol to be the most alpha alpha of them all, introduce her after Thanos.

Carol's power level is hardly the only ploit hole in the MCU. And hardly the biggest one.

[I'm a Fish]

Well, part of the issue was Titans still using her in a world where Wonder Woman showed up way later than the other heroes.

Yeah, that sounds awkward.

[Gaius]

Yeah, that sounds awkward.

Some of the issues of post-Crisis WW people have (Donna, JL founding status if that's your thing) probably could have been solved if Perez's series was said to take place an indeterminate amount of years before the rest of the DC universe.

[SiegePerilous02]

Some of the issues of post-Crisis WW people have (Donna, JL founding status if that's your thing) probably could have been solved if Perez's series was said to take place an indeterminate amount of years before the rest of the DC universe.

Still would love to know why anyone would think that was a good idea.
The Perez run could take place in the past and not be changed in any significant way.

[Gaius]

Still would love to know why anyone would think that was a good idea.
The Perez run could take place in the past and not be changed in any significant way.

Yeah, I recall that was a thing the New 52 did. That had its own problems but wouldn’t be surprised if it was reaction to stuff like that and what happened with the Hawks in the post-Crisis years.

[Stanlos]

This is a thread to discuss what you feel are the benefits and losses of the Wonder Woman characters not being in a shared universe.

It would really just depend on how strong the Editor is in a shared universe. She totally CAN work in a shared universe but with no one policing, I guess is the word, then there isn't anyone to curtail those going off the rails with her due to their political issues with her radical design.

[wonder39]

Honetly I've always felt it should be a delicate balance of both. Within one's own book, it should be relatively isolated. And occassional guest star, sure. And then more interaction in a team book (JLA).

I don't like the idea of everything being sooooo very interconnected. Bruce shouldn't be responsible for creating the Invisible Jet, or Diana's secret id. Mother Box shouldn't have created Cyborg, etc.

We all share a universe, but are we THAT interconnected?

[wonder39]

Let's not act like anything can become big without promotion and marketing to push the brand. WW never had the same level of promotion and exposure throughout media that Batman and Superman had. So it is just ridiculous to expect her to bring the same amount of money, when they have never given her the same chances. In fact, WW has proven many times her potential, yet they still didn't do much with her. Her debut comic was a very good seller. Yet sexism got her and after marston died. She was stuck in many mediocre stories where she was more concern about getting married than being a hero. The TV show was a hit. Yet what did they do with that momentum? They had her losing her powers and becoming a spyn in the comics. Her 2009 animated movie is one of the top selling animated movies in DC. Yet they did nothing to try to keep building on that. Her 2017 film was a big hit. Her solo debut film did far better than any SM film in the last 4 decades. Yet you don't see them trying much with her brand. And they still threw her under the bus in jl movie and did nothing with her verse in the comics. In the meantime. Marvel turned a very unknown character for the GP such as Carol Danvers, into the first female lead comic book movie to gross over a billion. Had no problem making her the strongest hero in their cinematic universe, and are pushing her to become a very important face of their universe. When was the last time DC put that much effort into WW's brand? And you expect her to sell as much as BM and SM with barely any promotion and push compared to them? It is already a miracle that she became such a pop culture icon without even 50% of the push they have had.

Um, she was depowered in like 1968, the Lynda Carter stuff didn't begin until 1975/76, well after Diana had regained her powers. You have it reversed 😊

[Pinsir]

By removing her from a shared universe, you're just cutting off potential stories.