Pros and Cons of A Not Being In A Shared Universe

[Rightoya]

I can compile a list;

> The Hiketia - WW beats up Batman

Yeah that is still not a problematic story, Batman losing physical fights with the likes of Wonder Woman or Superman should be the absolute standard, such fights should be just a rarity.

> JLA: League of One - Wonder Woman beats up the entire JLA

Oh you mean this book:

spiced up with his circus scene:

> Wonder Woman: Dead Earth - Wonder Woman kills Superman

And around the same time period Superman killed a Wonder Woman who was even armed with kryptonite, in another elseworlds.

> Rucka's first WW run- Wonder Woman throats Superman

You mean the same fight where Superman first briefly knocked her out, and then somehow even broke her wrist by just grabbing her?

> Injustice: has a pretty famous scene where WW beats up Superman

And another famous scene where this happens, right after that:



and that is just the tip of the iceberg with Injustice, which is luckily not canon.

I can probably find more

You couldn't find anything with the exception of Death Earth that truly fits so far.

, though keep in mind I'm not saying this means "Wonder Woman" is the problematic character.

She is obviously not.

Batman is pretty famous for doing this sort of stuff

And Superman too, especially in the buisness of making Wonder Woman look bad, but to a lesser degree other characters as well.

, but that's probably in part because of how many Batman books exists. I think its more telling that a lot of the Batman books that depict Wonder Woman and her rogues gallery poorly are bad comics with no meaningful legacy.

It's the only redeeming part about this.

Whereas Hiketia is still regarded as one of the greatest Wonder Woman comics...and its about Wonder Woman stepping on Batman.

It is not about that, and makes a different statement about this theme than you seem to think it does.

[Agent Z]

And even in the Hiketeia Batman still turns the tables on her and she ends up failing in her goal.

[Gaius]

Injustice is also more famous for turning her into arm candy for Supes while the comics also pinned the blame on her for him turning into SuperStalin. Also being Batman's punching bag in the second game, twice, than that fight scene.

So not really seeing the argument how that's a + for Diana existing in the same universe as dumb and dumber. If that's the story potential we lose than let's cut this cord.

[WonderLight789]

Honestly. When we discuss power levels and character treatment so often. Is because for whatever reason, some Wondy fans seem to think that she gets to have her moments to shine as often as batman or superman. Or that the times where she has them beat is equal to the amount of times that the opposite has happened. I could write a book about the countless times BM and SM have been presented as the better, more capable and important ones, and how WW was being used as the tool to get that message acrodss. How could anybody not see this? The situation between her and them is not even remotely close to be equal.

[I'm a Fish]

I just read Wonder Woman comics a lot so I don't gotta care about other characters or what they're doing.

[Pinsir]

Honestly. When we discuss power levels and character treatment so often. Is because for whatever reason, some Wondy fans seem to think that she gets to have her moments to shine as often as batman or superman. Or that the times where she has them beat is equal to the amount of times that the opposite has happened. I could write a book about the countless times BM and SM have been presented as the better, more capable and important ones, and how WW was being used as the tool to get that message acrodss. How could anybody not see this? The situation between her and them is not even remotely close to be equal.

I mean I did say that if you tally indignities suffered among suffered among DC characters, sure, maybe Wonder Woman has a lot, though, I think Superman has probably suffered the most. Like, both Batman and Wonder Woman beat up on him a lot and pretty much everyone else too. To be honest though, I just don't like the concept of Power Levels, I think people treat these comics too much like a game of war where the character with the highest attack wins, which is a mindset that is not conducive for good stories. I'd probably rather read a story where WW fights Angle Man than Doomsday.

[I'm a Fish]

Bat-God do wreak Sups a lot.

[Rightoya]

I think Superman has probably suffered the most. Like Wonder Woman beat up on him a lot and pretty much everyone else too.

Well, at least you write good jokes.

[hairys]

You can tell any WW story with just her supporting cast and the Greek Gods. Make her a part-time Justice Leaguer who helps out when the bad guy is one of the Gods or magic related.

[WonderLight789]

I mean I did say that if you tally indignities suffered among suffered among DC characters, sure, maybe Wonder Woman has a lot, though, I think Superman has probably suffered the most. Like, both Batman and Wonder Woman beat up on him a lot and pretty much everyone else too. To be honest though, I just don't like the concept of Power Levels, I think people treat these comics too much like a game of war where the character with the highest attack wins, which is a mindset that is not conducive for good stories. I'd probably rather read a story where WW fights Angle Man than Doomsday.

I can't see how that can be true. She has not defeated him in any canon story. She is usually wrecked by his top villains while he has no big problem with hers. And i don't see how power levels are a problem. Writers just need to respect what each character is supposed to be. Superman is respected in that regard more than WW. What was WW doing fighting street levelers and reandom criminals like most of her previous run for example? I rather see WW be WW aka powerful and fight a God, a well writen Cheetah, or Clea. Than watch her fight deathstroke for example.

[Geraldofrivia]

Did she actually defeat Superman in Dead Earth or was he nerfed? I doubt DC will let her do that

[I'm a Fish]

Did she actually defeat Superman in Dead Earth or was he nerfed? I doubt DC will let her do that

There fight almost destroyed humanity and she was whaling on Sups pretty hard. She had to use kryptonite to get the killing blow though.

I don't think he was nerfed though.

[I'm a Fish]

I can't see how that can be true. She has not defeated him in any canon story.

But everything is canon now. *infinite frontier or something*

She is usually wrecked by his top villains while he has no big problem with hers. And i don't see how power levels are a problem. Writers just need to respect what each character is supposed to be. Superman is respected in that regard more than WW. What was WW doing fighting street levelers and reandom criminals like most of her previous run for example? I rather see WW be WW aka powerful and fight a God, a well writen Cheetah, or Clea. Than watch her fight deathstroke for example.

When does Superman fight a WW villain and vice versa? I can only think of them teaming up against their respective villains in Superman/Wonder Woman series and she was fighting kryptonians in that series too. Honestly I haven't read that series in a while, and don't remember much, but that's the only time I can think of Superman fighting WW villains and I think only Apollo got humiliated because Superman absorbs sunlight and Apollo is the sun.

The only WW villains that really get the raw end are Cheetah and Giganta. Because Batman writers insist on having a cat themed villain in their book, and Giganta is just there for the group shots and they don't know what to do with her after.
At least they've been more consistent with Cheetah after Rebirth, I only saw her go up against Batman once since then and he had to be in a mech-suit to pin her (which is still "blah" but, it's a step up).

[Agent Z]

I mean I did say that if you tally indignities suffered among suffered among DC characters, sure, maybe Wonder Woman has a lot, though, I think Superman has probably suffered the most. Like, both Batman and Wonder Woman beat up on him a lot and pretty much everyone else too. To be honest though, I just don't like the concept of Power Levels, I think people treat these comics too much like a game of war where the character with the highest attack wins, which is a mindset that is not conducive for good stories. I'd probably rather read a story where WW fights Angle Man than Doomsday.

Twice, both of which occurred in Elseworlds, is not "a lot".

[Psy-lock]

From what I've seen, Superman loses to her villains most of the time. In Jimenez' run he was easily defeated by male Cheetah and brainwashed by Circe, in John's JL he was was easily transformed into a werebeast by Cheetah, in SM/WW he was brainwashed by Circe once again. Even in DCAU Giganta gave him a run for his money. Do we count Max Lord? Superman sure gets brainwashed a lot. I believe he defeated Queen of Fables in his own book but even that wasn't an easy fight.