Batbooks lineup

[Shadowcat]

And fighting against the police as well?

Yes. During the second Rupert Thorne arc during Gerry Conway’s run, when Gordon was forced to retire.

[prepmaster]

Yes. During the second Rupert Thorne arc during Gerry Conway’s run, when Gordon was forced to retire.

Do they become A list villains? Or just one and done thing?

[Shadowcat]

Do they become A list villains? Or just one and done thing?

They were villains for about 2 years, and having an anti Batman mayor would continue to be a theme up through post Crisis Batman.

[prepmaster]

They were villains for about 2 years, and having an anti Batman mayor would continue to be a theme up through post Crisis Batman.

I believe there is a long list of Gotham mayors.

[Shadowcat]

I believe there is a long list of Gotham mayors.

There is. Doesn’t mean having an anti-Bat mayor is something that can’t, or shouldn’t, be used from time to time.

[prepmaster]

There is. Doesn’t mean having an anti-Bat mayor is something that can’t, or shouldn’t, be used from time to time.

But right at the time where we are being fed with the concept of a black Batman?

[Shadowcat]

But right at the time where we are being fed with the concept of a black Batman?

As this will be the first time we’ve ever had a black Batman, obviously no.

[lemonpeace]

I don't think Crime Syndicate, Titans Academy, or Justice League really count as team books in Batman's line up. it reads kinda intellectually dishonest, especially considering you would still be able to illustrate the critique that there are a lot of Batbooks without including them to fudge the numbers.

that aside, this is closer to what I want to see from the Bat offices. still too many Batman focused solo stories but i think, with the use of anthologies and minis, they appear to be leaning toward diversifying the bat-line more. I'm hoping that once Batman vs Ra's, Batman/Catwoman, Batman: Reptilian, etc. wrap we'll start seeing minis starring the other Gotham heroes (ideally spinning out of Urban Legends) taking their place.

DC has been spending decades building up the ensemble of Gotham based heroes while still refusing to commit to building them out into their own brands. they need to start commiting so we don't have to have 10+ books with the name Batman on them. it's getting to the point I'm essentially tuning out just about anything centering Batman or Batman related unless it happens to have someone else I'm actually interested in reading. characters like Red Hood and Nightwing should be able to properly stand on their own at this point, how closely DC forces them to be chained to Batman at this point their career is pretty sad and pathetic ngl.

[Frontier]

I don't think Crime Syndicate, Titans Academy, or Justice League really count as team books in Batman's line up. it reads kinda intellectually dishonest, especially considering you would still be able to illustrate the critique that there are a lot of Batbooks without including them to fudge the numbers.

that aside, this is closer to what I want to see from the Bat offices. still too many Batman focused solo stories but i think, with the use of anthologies and minis, they appear to be leaning toward diversifying the bat-line more. I'm hoping that once Batman vs Ra's, Batman/Catwoman, Batman: Reptilian, etc. wrap we'll start seeing minis starring the other Gotham heroes (ideally spinning out of Urban Legends) taking their place. DC has been spending decades making the building up the ensemble of Gotham based heroes while still refusing to commit to building them out into their own brands, they need to start commiting so we don't have to have 10+ books with the name Batman on them. it's getting to the point I'm essentially tuning out almost anything involving Batman related unless it happens to have someone else I'm actually interested in reading. characters like Red Hood and Nightwing should be able to properly stand on their own at this point, how closely DC forces them to be chained to Batman at this point their career is pretty sad and pathetic ngl.

I think it depends how they handle it. They shouldn't feel tethered to the extent where Batman stuff derails their own book but they should all feel relevant within the same orbit of each other as a family in terms of actual character dynamics and books.

[lemonpeace]

I think it depends how they handle it. They shouldn't feel tethered to the extent where Batman stuff derails their own book but they should all feel relevant within the same orbit of each other as a family in terms of actual character dynamics and books.

that's pretty much what I'm getting at. I've hit on this multiple times regarding Duke's development, I don't think the Gotham heroes need to be divorced from Batman entirely (there is a clear benefit from that association) but the reason these characters are who they are in their current form is to be able to springboard into the DC universe as their own thing. although I didn't hate the Ric saga like most people on here, it's crazy that a Batman book would upend and drastically shift the direction of Nightwing's. or we have situations like Red Hood where (despite the guy being a weirdo) Lobdell did a great job building Jason's mythology, expanding his cast, and forging a complex and nuanced identity for him beyond "the villain Bat who kills"; but at the end all his toys get put away and he's back in Gotham. the fact that every other storyline every single bat protege has to descend onto Gotham as Batman's army also doesn't help.

I love the idea of the Batfamily, but the card is being overplayed. if there needs to be a Bat Clan team up then when it happens it:
a.) needs to be specific members for specific missions/task (no more than 2-3 man team ups, all hands on deck needs to be few and far between)
b.) there needs to be some measure of them working as equals as opposed to being his subordinates
and
c.) most importantly there needs to be more stories when the proteges are off Batman's turf, in their own corner of the DC universe, proving why Batman trust these people as his partners.

it's like with Green Lanterns. their mythos is vast, the best way to mitigate their characters is to start divvying them up into other Corps or other cosmic concepts or whatever, and build on what makes them special. the Bat office needs to do the same, divvy them up and build each from there.

[prepmaster]

The real question is why the Joker even tolerates this thing called Batfam.

He wants to play his game with Batman only.

[lemonpeace]

The real question is why the Joker even tolerates this thing called Batfam.

He wants to play his game with Batman only.

because, realistically, the only thing keeping Joker breathing is Batman's mentality. barring jobbing to make him more ominous in Batman's story, if he pulls up on someone like Jason or Huntress or Damian or Batwoman (maybe even Cass if pushed far enough) he's being put on a shirt the minute he starts getting too twisted and tries to test their gangsta. when written correctly most of Batfamily should be breaking all sorts of feet in Joker's ass.

[prepmaster]

because, realistically, the only thing keeping Joker breathing is Batman's mentality. barring jobbing to make him more ominous in Batman's story, if he pulls up on someone like Jason or Huntress or Damian or Batwoman (maybe even Cass if pushed far enough) he's being put on a shirt the minute he starts getting too twisted and tries to test their gangsta. when written correctly most of Batfamily should be breaking all sorts of feet in Joker's ass.

Sorry but there are only few people that can actually plan against Batman. Joker is one of them. Batfam members would not be able to hang up with the Joker in his game.

[lemonpeace]

Sorry but there are only few people that can actually plan against Batman. Joker is one of them. Batfam members would not be able to hang up with the Joker in his game.

meeeh, compared to most other villains Joker isn't particularly formidable. typically Jokers capers pale in comparison to pretty much any major villain, nor is he really supposed to. most times the thing Joker always falls back on is extreme cruelty and Batman's particular personal failings more than any particularly cleverness or cunning; because his significance is metatextual. Joker isn't really meant to be some machiavellian super genius schemer, he's meant to be a foil, a ominous oppositional force to test Batman as a character. that's why his skills can be summed up as "you don't know what he's gonna do" which is a handwave to make him as smart or dumb or skilled as he needs to be for the story, especially in relation to Batman, without giving him an actual skillset. that's also why we've seen stories where he's a mild nuisance to any other Leaguer, yet in others can trick a higher being or beat the Legion of doom or defeat the League.

so like I said, barring the necessity to make him more ominous in Batman's stories, any of the other bats with a proclivity for putting packs together realistically would put that man to a shirt. sorry bro, it is what it is.

[prepmaster]

so like I said, barring the necessity to make him more ominous in Batman's stories, any of the other bats with a proclivity for putting packs together realistically would put that man to a shirt. sorry bro, it is what it is.

You talk about realism so much yet in comics Joker has shown to be formidable enough to capture members of Batfam on few occasions. Even Hush, Flashpoint Batman managed to render Batfam useless.

Joker has clashed with Batman so many times. Joker knows how Batman thinks more than most other Batman's villains.