Justice Society of America / JSA favorite members: from 1940 through 2008

[Adekis]

I'm not sure how much Giffen was involved with stories involving the Earth-2 Superman (unless Ambush Bug was involved?), but Kal-L was originally on Poll #2 ("Justice Society Poll II: Who are your favorite members (1961-1999)?") and made it to the second round of voting ("Golden Age through 1998") before losing out.
He also was featured in a fun series in Superman Family back in the day called "Mr. and Mrs. Superman" where he and Lois had gotten married.

All-Star Comics # 62 (first appearance of what I consider the new Earth 2 Superman, based more deliberately on the early Golden Age) was plotted by Gerry Conway, scripted by Paul Levitz, penciled by Keith Giffen, and inked by Wallace Wood. On a double-check, Levitz seems to have been the main writer for most of that run of issues, so I probably should have said "Levitz et al." But! Giffen was there!

You know, funnily enough, I've never been able to find the "Mr. And Mrs. Superman" stories to read them. They're not on DCUI I don't think, and I've always been interested in the concept. I love the "Superman Takes a Wife" story where they initially get married, but I've been unable to follow up on it! Sad but true.

[MajorHoy]

All-Star Comics # 62 (first appearance of what I consider the new Earth 2 Superman, based more deliberately on the early Golden Age) was plotted by Gerry Conway, scripted by Paul Levitz, penciled by Keith Giffen, and inked by Wallace Wood. On a double-check, Levitz seems to have been the main writer for most of that run of issues, so I probably should have said "Levitz et al." But! Giffen was there!

The Earth-2 Superman had also been involved in some of the JLA/JSA team-ups prior to then, starting with Justice League of America #73 (August 1969).

[MajorHoy]

53 people have now voted, and it looks like Doctor Fate is almost catching up to Flash (Jay) while Mr. Terrific may be making a bid to try and reach the Top 3.

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 34 votes
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 32 votes
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 31 votes
* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 29 votes
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 27 votes
* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 26 votes

* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 22 votes
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 22 votes
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 22 votes

* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 20 votes
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 19 votes
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 18 votes

[Adekis]

The Earth-2 Superman had also been involved in some of the JLA/JSA team-ups prior to then, starting with Justice League of America #73 (August 1969).

Correct! That's why I specified that All-Star # 62 was the first appearance of the "new" Earth 2 Superman, and not just the Earth 2 Superman, who first appeared much earlier. As I mentioned in my first comment, prior to All-Star # 62, Earth 2 Superman was functionally identical to Earth 1 Superman in powers, personality, etc. There's an issue where the two Supermen fight, and they are utterly indistinguishable without the aid of dialogue tags.

I actually think that makes a lot of sense.

After all, the bulk of the JSA is people who don't seem to exist on Earth 1, like Jay Garrick and Wes Dodds. If the characters are based on Golden Age comics, well... Superman was around in the Golden Age. Why would we assume he'd be different on Earth 1 than Earth 2? Any character evolution or retcons applied to the former would surely be applied to the latter, right?

Unlike Flash or GL, there was never a hard break between one version of Superman and the next. On the contrary, Mort Weisinger was allegedly pretty firm that there was a fairly concrete timeline, with Superboy stories set prior to 1938. Obviously it wasn't a perfect match-up. You might argue that Lois is a youthful 40 in the year 1960, but not that Jimmy is 40 in 1970! The timeline may simply have been a way to keep "the immortal Superman" a little more mortal. He's not consistently drawn to age, but given Weisinger's famous inferiority complex regarding Superman, it may have helped Mort sleep a little easier!

Anyway, that timeline being in place, it would mean that barring a few odd retcons and a general lack of aging, all the Golden Age stories were already in Earth 1 Superman's past (helps that you couldn't go back and read the old stuff to see the inconsistencies like you can today!), and presumably Earth 2 Superman was the exact same.

In fact the only real difference between them in the late 60s and early 70s crossovers was that sometimes (and as in the Golden Age, this wasn't even consistent within a single issue) Earth 2 Supes would have a slightly different chest emblem, which eventually evolved into what we recognize as the Earth 2 S.

By the late 70s, it had been a few years since Earth 2 Superman last showed up, and Weisinger was no longer a recent memory as he had been in the early 70s, and Earth 1 Superman had transitioned to a pretty universally accepted "sliding scale timeline". I don't know if was Conway or Levitz who had the idea of basically treating the earliest days of the character as a template for how to diffentiate Earth 2 Superman from the main one, but it was a good move that gave Earth 2 Superman a distinct identity for the first time. I want to say it was the later Roy Thomas who came up with the idea of basically canonizing weird inconsistencies from before the series was set in stone as "differences" between Earth 1 and 2 Superman, like "Kal-L," Kryptonians having powers on Krypton, Luthor's red hair, no Superboy, George Taylor and the Daily Star, etc - all things that were changed to their normal state within the Golden Age years, mind you!n But I think it was Conway or Levitz who must have come up with the basic premise of Superman-2 & Power Girl being explicitly physically weaker than the Kal & Kara of Earth 1, as well as both of the, being, perhaps as a result, bigger roughnecks!

Urp3TZk.jpg

So... yeah. All-Star # 62.

Sorry that explanation ran a little long!

[superduperman]

I went with Allan, Jay, and Kent because you have to. They are the old school. PG because I loves me some E-2 and her more famous cousin wasn't available this round. Black Canary because she's Black Canary. Stargirl because I'm digging her show. Liberty Bell because I like her even though with PG on the team she's bit redundant.

[MajorHoy]

I went with Allan, Jay, and Kent because you have to. They are the old school. PG because I loves me some E-2 and her more famous cousin wasn't available this round. Black Canary because she's Black Canary. Stargirl because I'm digging her show. Liberty Bell because I like her even though with PG on the team she's bit redundant.

Why is she "redundant"?
Because she's another blonde female?

Don't forget, the full poll entry was for "Liberty Belle II/Jessie Quick (Jesse Chambers)", so she does have the superspeed powers her father Johnny Quick had.

[The Darknight Detective]

Correct! That's why I specified that All-Star # 62 was the first appearance of the "new" Earth 2 Superman, and not just the Earth 2 Superman, who first appeared much earlier. As I mentioned in my first comment, prior to All-Star # 62, Earth 2 Superman was functionally identical to Earth 1 Superman in powers, personality, etc. There's an issue where the two Supermen fight, and they are utterly indistinguishable without the aid of dialogue tags.

I actually think that makes a lot of sense.

After all, the bulk of the JSA is people who don't seem to exist on Earth 1, like Jay Garrick and Wes Dodds. If the characters are based on Golden Age comics, well... Superman was around in the Golden Age. Why would we assume he'd be different on Earth 1 than Earth 2? Any character evolution or retcons applied to the former would surely be applied to the latter, right?

Unlike Flash or GL, there was never a hard break between one version of Superman and the next. On the contrary, Mort Weisinger was allegedly pretty firm that there was a fairly concrete timeline, with Superboy stories set prior to 1938. Obviously it wasn't a perfect match-up. You might argue that Lois is a youthful 40 in the year 1960, but not that Jimmy is 40 in 1970! The timeline may simply have been a way to keep "the immortal Superman" a little more mortal. He's not consistently drawn to age, but given Weisinger's famous inferiority complex regarding Superman, it may have helped Mort sleep a little easier!

Anyway, that timeline being in place, it would mean that barring a few odd retcons and a general lack of aging, all the Golden Age stories were already in Earth 1 Superman's past (helps that you couldn't go back and read the old stuff to see the inconsistencies like you can today!), and presumably Earth 2 Superman was the exact same.

In fact the only real difference between them in the late 60s and early 70s crossovers was that sometimes (and as in the Golden Age, this wasn't even consistent within a single issue) Earth 2 Supes would have a slightly different chest emblem, which eventually evolved into what we recognize as the Earth 2 S.

By the late 70s, it had been a few years since Earth 2 Superman last showed up, and Weisinger was no longer a recent memory as he had been in the early 70s, and Earth 1 Superman had transitioned to a pretty universally accepted "sliding scale timeline". I don't know if was Conway or Levitz who had the idea of basically treating the earliest days of the character as a template for how to diffentiate Earth 2 Superman from the main one, but it was a good move that gave Earth 2 Superman a distinct identity for the first time. I want to say it was the later Roy Thomas who came up with the idea of basically canonizing weird inconsistencies from before the series was set in stone as "differences" between Earth 1 and 2 Superman, like "Kal-L," Kryptonians having powers on Krypton, Luthor's red hair, no Superboy, George Taylor and the Daily Star, etc - all things that were changed to their normal state within the Golden Age years, mind you!n But I think it was Conway or Levitz who must have come up with the basic premise of Superman-2 & Power Girl being explicitly physically weaker than the Kal & Kara of Earth 1, as well as both of the, being, perhaps as a result, bigger roughnecks!

Urp3TZk.jpg

So... yeah. All-Star # 62.

Sorry that explanation ran a little long!

It was also the first time I saw him, too, as well as my first All-Star comic (though it's possible one of the crossover Earth-1/Earth-2/Earth-S issues was the first time I saw the original superteam, since they were all published at the same time).

[MajorHoy]

With 58 people having voted,

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 35 votes
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 34 votes
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 33 votes
* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 30 votes
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 29 votes
* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 27 votes
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 24 votes

* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 23 votes
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 23 votes

* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 21 votes
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 20 votes
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 18 votes

Dang! Jay's dropped down to 3rd place now behind Alan and Kent Nelson!

[MajorHoy]

One more person makes it 59 people having voted, with only slight changes to the results:

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 36 (+1) votes
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 35 votes (+1)
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 34 votes (+1)

* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 30 votes
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 30 votes (+1)

* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 28 (+1) votes
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 25 votes (+1)
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 24 votes (+1)
* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 23 votes
* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 22 votes (+1)
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 21 votes (+1)
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 18 votes

Power Girl and Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) are tied again, and Sandman has passed Hawkman in the voting (at least for now).

[MajorHoy]

60 people have voted, so current results are:

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 37 votes
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 36 votes
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 35 votes

* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 31 votes
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 31 votes

* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 29 votes
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 25 votes

* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 24 votes
* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 24 votes

* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 23 votes
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 21 votes
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 18 votes

[MajorHoy]

New year, and we're now at 61 people having voted:

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 37 votes
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 36 votes
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 36 votes (+1)
* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 31 votes
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 31 votes
* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 29 votes
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 25 votes
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 24 votes
* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 24 votes
* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 23 votes
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 21 votes
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 18 votes

And before people start complaining "How come ____________________________ isn't on this list?!?", read the original post(s) first.

[MajorHoy]

With 63 people having now voted:

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 38 votes (+1)
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 38 votes (+2)
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 37 votes (+1)
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 32 votes (+1)
* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 31 votes
* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 30 votes (+1)
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 26 votes (+1)
* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 26 votes (+2)
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 25 votes (+1)
* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 24 votes (+1)
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 22 votes (+1)
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 19 votes (+1)

[Jekyll]

Let's go Jay Garrick fans!!!!

[MajorHoy]

With 66 people having now voted:

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 39 votes (+1)
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 39 votes (+1)
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 38 votes (+1)
* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 33 votes (+2)
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 32 votes
* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 31 votes (+1)
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 27 votes (+1)
* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 27 votes (+1)
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 25 votes
* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 25 votes (+1)
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 23 votes (+1)
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 20 votes (+1)

[MajorHoy]

Now we've got a three-way tie for first place.

With 68 people having voted:

* Green Lantern (Alan Scott) = 40 votes (+1)
* The Flash (Jay Garrick) = 40 votes (+1)
* Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson) = 40 votes (+2)
* Mr. Terrific (Michael Holt) = 33 votes
* Power Girl (Karen Starr / Kara Zor-L) = 33 votes (+1)
* Wildcat (Ted Grant) = 31 votes
* Black Canary II (Dinah Lance) = 27 votes
* Hawkman (Carter Hall) = 27 votes
* The Sandman (Wesley Dodds) = 25 votes
* Dr. Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross) = 25 votes
* Star-Spangled Kid II / Stargirl (Courtney Whitmore) = 23 votes
* Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders) = 21 votes (+1)