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  1. #16
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    I agree, as others said, it's really hard to gauge what Joker even does without Batman to drive him.

    Like he might just do a bunch of dumb non-lethal **** because he thinks it's funny. He's a sociopathic killer but he only does it if he thinks it's funny. His city destroying stuff is usually to motivate Bruce and that's not a factor here.

    I don't know. He could do well enough, he's charismatic enough and skilled enough to pull off some big time stuff but it really depends how he decides to play. If he overexposes himself with wanton killing then he's likely going to get taken down.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I agree, as others said, it's really hard to gauge what Joker even does without Batman to drive him.

    Like he might just do a bunch of dumb non-lethal **** because he thinks it's funny. He's a sociopathic killer but he only does it if he thinks it's funny. His city destroying stuff is usually to motivate Bruce and that's not a factor here.

    I don't know. He could do well enough, he's charismatic enough and skilled enough to pull off some big time stuff but it really depends how he decides to play. If he overexposes himself with wanton killing then he's likely going to get taken down.
    The last time I recall him preparing to destroy a city it was basically because Bruce was gone and he wanted a clean slate. It was when Dick had taken over as Batman with Damien. And that was literally him getting a nuclear bomb nobody knew about until he told them. He was also planning to poison most of his Gotham in his initial appearance before Batman stopped him and the crush became a thing. On the other hand, he also famously retired in SKR when Bruce did, so who knows. A Joker thread without a defined objective for him is rather pointless.

    And this comment isn't aimed at you Nik... But I'm baffled by the lack of critical thinking people have about the Joker. There's like this weird mental blind spot for him. He routinely matches wits with some the smartest people in the DCU, and he's generally only held back by his crush on Batman and whatever he thinks is amusing. Yes, there's plot armor that no one finishes him off when he gets caught, but that's literally every reoccurring comic book villain.. And then nobody seems to actually think about what it took to catch him.

    Dude obtains nuclear bombs, kidnaps the president, creates WMD grade weapons out of household cleaning supplies, and creates toxins that work on a disable portion of the meta human population. Hell, he Jokerized Superman and the Justice League at least once in the last decade. And frankly Batman is just as reliant on plot armor to not get killed by the Joker.

    And yet people think Fool Killer is gonna have no problem tracking him down and capping him. Really folks? I think people are just so sick of how hyped up the guy is that they stop actually thinking in feats anymore out of distaste.
    Last edited by Captain Morgan; 04-04-2021 at 05:59 AM.

  3. #18
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Oh no, I quite agree with you Morgan. A lot of underestimating going on in this thread.

    Joker, at his peak, is no joke (aha!). He could definitely become a key player in MU New York if appropriately motivated. My point was more that he's a lot more erratic without Batman to focus him and, I think it's very fair to say, that Batman does draw Joker's best out of him.

    If you give him the same focus with like Daredevil or Moon Knight or something, he becomes a whole lot more formidable and focused.

    Without it, he could flip to mass-murder or weird trolling **** just as easily.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    tangent: Who is funnier, Joker or Spider-man?

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member Muadib's Avatar
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    Big Ups to Nik Hasta and Capt Morgan for actually looking at the scenario objectively and remembering the Joker's feats. You restored my faith in this board.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    tangent: Who is funnier, Joker or Spider-man?
    It's basically down to whoever is writing them, but I'd say Spider-Man generally wins. What Joker thinks is funny is usually pretty awful.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muadib View Post
    Big Ups to Nik Hasta and Capt Morgan for actually looking at the scenario objectively and remembering the Joker's feats. You restored my faith in this board.
    Here's the issue, though.

    Marvel NYC is a much trickier, tougher beast of a city than Gotham city.

    ATM, this is the level of difficulty that Joker has to handle in NYC.

    1. Shield Helicarrier
    2. Hell's Kitchen
    3. Daughters of the Dragon (Misty Knight and Colleen Wing)
    4. Spidey's Neighborhood


    (Note: Due to OP, Joker gets to avoid Morlocks, Baxter's Building, Dr. Strange Mansion, and Avengers Mansion. Iron Fist and Luke Cage are also avoided)

    Now, look at the fact that Joker gets only Punchline and money as resources (No Harley). Physically, he (and his crew) can't handle anything above the Helicarrier (and that's a tough fight that I am not certain he wins). He is a strategic/chemical genius but Spiderman is probably at his level in science.

    He has to lay low before announcing his plan and strike quickly. If he's noticed, he has to run around and hope that it's Spidey that comes after him. Depending on strength of his acid flower, he might be able to avoid being webbed and being caught. There are a lot of variables that he doesn't want to see (Kingpin, Elektra, Bullseye, Green Goblin). He can get away with his first couple of capers, but when he starts killing people, he realizes that NYC plays for keeps. He doesn't do that well when it's his life in danger. He tends to run for safety (jail).

    It's a hard battle for him. If he's lucky, he ends up in the Vault. He's probably dead, though. And Punchline gets a rude life awakening.

  8. #23
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    I would want to see their reactions to Joker Fish, but I'm pretty sure that would end with a pissed off Namor.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    The last time I recall him preparing to destroy a city it was basically because Bruce was gone and he wanted a clean slate. It was when Dick had taken over as Batman with Damien. And that was literally him getting a nuclear bomb nobody knew about until he told them. He was also planning to poison most of his Gotham in his initial appearance before Batman stopped him and the crush became a thing. On the other hand, he also famously retired in SKR when Bruce did, so who knows. A Joker thread without a defined objective for him is rather pointless.

    And this comment isn't aimed at you Nik... But I'm baffled by the lack of critical thinking people have about the Joker. There's like this weird mental blind spot for him. He routinely matches wits with some the smartest people in the DCU, and he's generally only held back by his crush on Batman and whatever he thinks is amusing. Yes, there's plot armor that no one finishes him off when he gets caught, but that's literally every reoccurring comic book villain.. And then nobody seems to actually think about what it took to catch him.

    Dude obtains nuclear bombs, kidnaps the president, creates WMD grade weapons out of household cleaning supplies, and creates toxins that work on a disable portion of the meta human population. Hell, he Jokerized Superman and the Justice League at least once in the last decade. And frankly Batman is just as reliant on plot armor to not get killed by the Joker.

    And yet people think Fool Killer is gonna have no problem tracking him down and capping him. Really folks? I think people are just so sick of how hyped up the guy is that they stop actually thinking in feats anymore out of distaste.
    I admit that I don't instinctively think of unsupported plot point as feats. Joker undoing the restoration of his sanity by Martian Manhunter is a great feat. Joker just arbitrarily getting a nuke feels like a classic case of PIS unless the writer actually shows us how Joker obtained it. It's not like Joker routinely acquires weapons of mass destruction the way Thanos casually acquires cosmic cubes. Sure, Joker is great with poisons, but that is a whole different thing.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Are there any Batman-tier detectives to find Joker before he does something like poison the entire water supply with Joker toxin? Like, Wolverine and Daredevil might be able to do it with super senses, but mutants with super senses are pretty common knowledge in 616, so Joker should know to plan around them as well.

    Honestly, I'm thinking that he might actually reach out to the likes of Carnage and Sabertooth for teamups, since their respective philosophies have some overlaps that they might find fun before their inevitable mutual betrayals. I could even see them treating it as a game between themselves where they are each trying to achieve a goal that needs both of the others assistance while waiting for the best time to betray one another so that they are the only one (or at least the first) to get to their goal. They don't even take offense at the backstabbings and regularly meet up for Mario Kart as they plan their next competitive cooperation game of Triple Cross (which would also be their unofficial team up name).

    Also, are we hand waving away the possibility that he accidentally bumps into someone out of his pay grade, much like how Carnage's rampages don't end because Dr. Strange, a Phoenix Force Host, and Thor had all been on line for the newest Broadway musical?

  11. #26
    Impulsive Nschornhorst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Mac View Post
    Now, look at the fact that Joker gets only Punchline and money as resources (No Harley). Physically, he (and his crew) can't handle anything above the Helicarrier (and that's a tough fight that I am not certain he wins). He is a strategic/chemical genius but Spiderman is probably at his level in science.
    Why would Joker *only* get Punchline and money as resources? He has chemicals and numerous weapons at his disposal and if this thread is like the Kingpin one, since the OP made this as a sort of offshoot of it, he should get all his usual resources like Kingpin does in Gotham. Even without Harley, he gets his henchmen, Joker gas, bombs, guns, hideout, Jokermobile, etc.

    Some posters also seem to think that everyone will be tracking Joker from the get-go. They won't even know who he is. Joker is flamboyant, but he waits for his moments. As others (and I) have said, it really depends on Joker's mood/motive. If he's causing trouble for stupid reasons like this is a fun vacation for him, then he's tracked and offed as several posters say, I think. But, if he's playing it smart and simply looking to leave this place with a big grin so he can get back to Batsy, the Marvel NYC may be in trouble. He's perfectly capable of biding his time, learning what he can, and setting things in motion on a city-wide level. Honestly, there are many characters in the DCU that are just as capable and willing to take Joker out if prompted to-- Luthor, Deathstroke, Ra's al Ghul, Vandal Savage, etc. who have resources and can see Joker only as useful as bringing chaos to the heroes, but if he gets in their way... yet, they often underestimate the Joker. I'd imagine many Marvel folks might as well. Punchline or Harley or both, Joker has someone who can distract heroes and take the fall when he decimates the city as he tries to head back to Batman. He could even break criminals out to run amok, as he's easily done so in the past.

    Now, that's *if* he feels there's a Batman to get back to. If he's trapped in the MU without Batman, who knows what could happen. He's run the gamut of mass-destruction, mourning, going sane, going catatonic, and all points in between when Batman vanishes/dies in various stories. It's too much of a wild card if there's no one he considers a worthy enough foe in MU to challenge and if he truly believes Batman is lost to him forever.

  12. #27
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mider2009 View Post
    So I did Kingpin heads to Gotham n pretty much agreed Kingpin would easily take over the city, maybe someone like Hush or Joker could hold him off but that’s about it

    How would The Joker do if he got tired 9f Gotham n decided to go to New York, in this thread he in,y fights street level guys like Spider-Man, Daredevil, etc

    No avengers like Thor or Iron man
    The OP doesn't say anything about what resources Joker gets.
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  13. #28
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    None of 616’s resident heroes may be as good as a detective as Bruce is supposed to be, but there’s also a lot more boots on the ground in NYC at any given time than there ever is in Gotham. As good as Bruce is, he’s still just one man watching over an entire city which allows a lot to slip through the cracks. It’s a lot more likely somebody in 616 NYC would catch wind of or even outright accidentally stumble upon one of Joker’s operations.

    Beside, if we are taking the Avengers and their like off the table doesn’t that inherently limit what, exactly, Joker can pull off without attracting their attention? Dude’s not launching a city wide attack without at least some of the resident big guns taking notice.

    Speaking of which, when was the last time Joker did anything that wasn’t directly connected to Bruce in some capacity? InJustice? With how deeply connected Bruce has been tied to Joker’s motivation for doing, well... anything really over time, can we even reasonable assume that Joker would bother to do some big performance without a Bat there to participate?

  14. #29
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    I always felt that the Joker would make an amazing spider-man villain, but then again, the Joker probably makes an amazing anybody villain.

    As for the thread, i think the Joker (at his best) does fine. He can outfox the punisher.

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Mac View Post
    Here's the issue, though.

    Marvel NYC is a much trickier, tougher beast of a city than Gotham city.

    ATM, this is the level of difficulty that Joker has to handle in NYC.

    [LIST=1][*]Shield Helicarrier[*]Hell's Kitchen[*] Daughters of the Dragon (Misty Knight and Colleen Wing)[*]Spidey's Neighborhood.
    Most of these are mutually exclusive. I mean you're citing two different locations as if he'd have to take them both on simultaneously, and generally speaking by the time SHIELD is involved we have graduated past Colleen Wing.

    Now, look at the fact that Joker gets only Punchline and money as resources (No Harley).
    That's all he ever has. It isn't like he obtains the Infinity Gauntlet to pull off any of his schemes.

    Physically, he (and his crew) can't handle anything above the Helicarrier (and that's a tough fight that I am not certain he wins).
    Sorry, why is he getting into a physical fight with the Helicarrier exactly? Like, what do you think Joker is trying to do here exactly because I cannot follow your thread.

    He can get away with his first couple of capers, but when he starts killing people, he realizes that NYC plays for keeps.
    When Joker starts killing people, it may very well be /thousands of people./

    He is a strategic/chemical genius but Spiderman is probably at his level in science.
    But not in strategy. Batman has tech at least as good as Spidey and is the World's Greatest Detective to boot. Spider-Man ain't finding Joker unless Joker wants to be found.
    He doesn't do that well when it's his life in danger. He tends to run for safety (jail).
    He seems to do just fine when he's being hunting down global secret societies or crime syndicates who would certainly prefer it if he were dead, actually.

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