Joker goes to New York

[MorphyVSFischer]

if joker decided to get local goons, then frank could interrogate them to the info he needs. never said frank was a detective or anything of the sort. frank only needs to find out where joker is or could be and one shot. like i said, if he runs into frank or wade, he's eating a bullet.

another factor to point out: batman tends to work on his own when it comes to gotham, save for members of the bat family. he rarely calls for outside help. in marvel NYC, all the heroes are well connected with each other. if matt or peter have to deal with joker, they will call in some help.

Joker has literally hid from Batman, a far superior detective with far superior resources to Frank and not been able to find Joker for months on end. Punisher is literally never going to find Joker unless Joker literally misleading to a trap where he fills the entire warehouse with joker gas the second Frank steps into it.

[master of read]

Joker has literally hid from Batman, a far superior detective with far superior resources to Frank and not been able to find Joker for months on end. Punisher is literally never going to find Joker unless Joker literally misleading to a trap where he fills the entire warehouse with joker gas the second Frank steps into it.

just offering a possible way for frank to find him.

[Len Ikari145]

And you know Bullseye, he's always hunting down other criminals for justice. Oh wait. Bullseye is more likely to try and get hired by Joker than try to kill him.

Seriously. What is it about Joker that prevents people from critically examining their first thought?

Because people aren't entirely confident if those feats are examples of PIS and bad writing or if this level of ingenuity is largely consistent with his character, according to the rules. It's kinda the same issue people have with Batman, where it seems like he magically makes other heroes dumber than they would be in their mainstream books. Honestly, I thought this was obvious, but I've noticed that the ones arguing in favor of Joker's probable success in Marvel NY are primarily focused on the heroes' lack of moral scruples about killing him.

[Beadle]

Now, in the other scenario, you gave Kingpin people like Bullseye/Thyroid Mary, that can easily beat up most of the Gotham City heroes/villains. Kingpin just has to plan, and strategize. That's in addition to money and his normal gang.

“Shut up! It’s not my fault I’m fat! I have a thyroid problem!”

Thyroid Mary, welcome to the League of Typos.

[Captain Morgan]

Which are all accomplishments that we know happened in a city where he is one of(if not the...) foundational bricks.

The idea that we can make an "Apple..."/"Apple..." comparison to a whole other city in a whole other continuity where the power structures are pretty well written into cement that has long since dried?

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The Joker we know did not go up against an existing power structure getting to where he is.

False. Gotham had power structures in place before Joker showed up on the scene. The criminal underworld might have been less colorful, but Gotham is famously corrupt and dangerous. Joker made his mark there just fine. And the power structures have since been overhauled time and time again as new gangsters materialize and fight for power.

The only real difference with Marvel's underworld is there is usually a higher level of physical power operating locally, but physical power isn't what Joker trades in anyway. And Joker has generally done just fine when he leaves his hometown as well. He's held Gorilla city hostage to make Gross do his bidding, for example.

[Shellhead]

He's held Gorilla city hostage to make Gross do his bidding, for example.

Gorilla Gross is another fine addition to the League of Typos.

[Captain Morgan]

Didn't Joker basically own the Legion of Doom and Lex JUST to show that he could and to prove a point?

Granted, Marvel New York has a LOT of superheroes, but I don't think Joker is getting quite the level of credit he deserves. I mean, plot armor or not, he routinely gives someone considered the world's greatest detective a challenge.

Gorilla Gross is another fine addition to the League of Typos.

Well auto correct, you got me again.

[Captain Morgan]

Because people aren't entirely confident if those feats are examples of PIS and bad writing or if this level of ingenuity is largely consistent with his character, according to the rules. It's kinda the same issue people have with Batman, where it seems like he magically makes other heroes dumber than they would be in their mainstream books. Honestly, I thought this was obvious, but I've noticed that the ones arguing in favor of Joker's probable success in Marvel NY are primarily focused on the heroes' lack of moral scruples about killing him.

Then hey, push back on his listed feats. Shellhead did that to one feat, and I replied to it. I'm willing to discuss them, and they can be weighed against the feats of others. But that isn't really what has happened. Everyone keeps posting about killing like being willing to kill like it has any relevance to finding the guy in the first place.

Or better yet, post some feats for his competition. And consider what his competition actually is, here. Because Bullseye it ain't.

Joker is someone who routinely pulls one over on the world's greatest detective, and who Lex Luthor consistently recognizes as someone who needs to get a seat at the table of whatever super villain group he's putting together, if only because making the Joker feel excluded is likely to make him a threat which can credibly ruin you. His presentation is one of the most dangerous minds on the planet and he's got tons of feats to back this up. In the last decade he's bordered on the supernatural with his impact on DC.

You can certainly make the case that he's overrated in popular culture, but he's been written at this level for a long, long time.

[Captain Morgan]

Also, my phone keeps quoting extra people and I don't know why. Sorry about that.

Keep in mind that Joker also doesn't want to kill Batman. When he's confronted by people who actually want him dead, he just kills them first.

[Little_Mac]

“Shut up! It’s not my fault I’m fat! I have a thyroid problem!”

Thyroid Mary, welcome to the League of Typos.

*sigh*

i was doing so well...

*snorks*

Oh, boy....

[The MunchKING]

He's held Gorilla city hostage to make Gross do his bidding, for example.

Wait... Isn't Gorilla Grodd a powerful psychic in addition to being a Flash villain? How did Joker deal with that?

[Captain Morgan]

Wait... Isn't Gorilla Grodd a powerful psychic in addition to being a Flash villain? How did Joker deal with that?

Probably the same way he handles most people who can crush him one on one: don't be in the same room with them until they are already helpless against you. To be more specific, Joker infected Gorilla City with a plague and withheld the cure until Grodd led an attack for him.

[Huntsman Spider]

Huh. Alright then.

Does he still have the fishbowl at least?

He does, yeah. And for the full story on Mysterio being a demon thrall and all that, start with Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man by Peter David during the Civil War period, then skip to Nick Spencer's first issue of Amazing Spider-Man, which reveals that contrary to some retcons in between, Mysterio really did off himself at the end of Kevin Smith's Guardian Devil and wind up in hell, only to be released by a mysterious demon called Kindred (not so mysterious anymore in recent Spider-Man comics, but still).

[Marvel-Studios Rep]

Joker would beat Frank if they ever met face to face anyway. Joker is almost as fast as Batman, which means he is faster than Frank. Add the fact Joker carries a gun and that’s all she wrote. If it did come to pure hand to hand though, I’d argue Joker has equal or better damage soak. And Joker is arguably just as skilled, despite having no formal training. Frank is dead.

Of course Frank would never be able to find the joker so it’s mute.

Joker gases a bunch of guys in the marvel underworld like Tombstone or Hammerhead and has them fight a war against in each other. After that draws out some heroes he gases those to. Joker thas the heroes break into city hall and dance. Joker disappears after that and spends the rest of his time trolling people at buffets and try to find a way back to Gotham.

[Alan2099]

Joker would beat Frank if they ever met face to face anyway. Joker is almost as fast as Batman, which means he is faster than Frank. Add the fact Joker carries a gun and that’s all she wrote. If it did come to pure hand to hand though, I’d argue Joker has equal or better damage soak. And Joker is arguably just as skilled, despite having no formal training. Frank is dead.

Of course Frank would never be able to find the joker so it’s mute.

If you don't think this scene is awesome then you're just wrong.