Joker goes to New York

[numberthirty]

Guess what? Batman does all of that but better and still has a tough time finding Joker. And Batman knows of Joker and his behaviour/patterns while Frank doesn't.

Take a minute, and go over it though.

Is Batman pretty well equipped in the mainstream DCU? Sure.

Does he actually have access to any of the sort of tech that would be in a Roxxon base that was Zemo's pet project or that Frank came into when he went after Osborn?

[Captain Morgan]

Take a minute, and go over it though.

Is Batman pretty well equipped in the mainstream DCU? Sure.

Does he actually have access to any of the sort of tech that would be in a Roxxon base that was Zemo's pet project or that Frank came into when he went after Osborn?

I'm not sure what point you are making here, but if you are asking if Batman has better tech than Frank or Zemo or Roxxon, then I can tell you the answer: yes.

[The Watcher]

The biggest threat to Joker isn't the Punisher, it's Ghost Rider. Considering all the innocent blood he spills, the Clown will shine like a beacon to the Spirit of Vengeance. The Joker might be able to hide from Batman but Bruce doesn't have mystic senses telling him where a wrongdoer is.

[Dark Soul # 7]

The biggest threat to Joker isn't the Punisher, it's Ghost Rider. Considering all the innocent blood he spills, the Clown will shine like a beacon to the Spirit of Vengeance. The Joker might be able to hide from Batman but Bruce doesn't have mystic sense telling him where a wrongdoer is.

Yeah, this scenario isn't just Punisher going after the Joker. It's the Joker doing his thing in Marvel New York, and even without the heavy hitters like the Avengers that'll still attract a ton of heroes.

Ghost Rider might be the worst of them for mr. J, but the list also includes Spider-man, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Moon Knight, and that's just off the top of my head. This isn't Gotham where it's just one dude and his associates hunting down criminals. There's a whole bunch of really compotent superheroes running around, and none of them will like the Joker very much.

Not to mention that Kingpin wouldn't care for him either.

[Mider2009]

Take a minute, and go over it though.

Is Batman pretty well equipped in the mainstream DCU? Sure.

Does he actually have access to any of the sort of tech that would be in a Roxxon base that was Zemo's pet project or that Frank came into when he went after Osborn?

.....yes, he does.

[big_adventure]

Actually the Osborn assassination attempt is one time where a comic goes to show Punisher had actual luck on his side to go as far as he did. He went after Osborn with a Skrull sniper rifle early in the Dark Reign comics when I assumed it would have been easy enough for Frank to pocket a Skrull weapon for himself in the chaos following the end of Secret Invasion. And made sure to prepare so he would only push the trigger and make a clean exit. Then that same luck turned against him when Sentry showed up to his surprise (back then the fact he was Osborn's bodyguard and not-so-secret weapon wouldn't have been as widely known) and by the end of the comic Punisher barely escaped with his life and only because some unknown benefactor helped him and Sentry wasn't trying.

Actually, no, Punisher escaped with his life because he convinced Sentry that there was a bomb in a children's hospital that needed to be defused. Frank's prep was top notch.

[Wildling]

Actually, no, Punisher escaped with his life because he convinced Sentry that there was a bomb in a children's hospital that needed to be defused. Frank's prep was top notch.

Actually yes Frank stated before any of that came up (in the acid vat factory) that Sentry would have ended him if not for his wanting to verbally admonish him. And you're omitting the fact that even with the bomb distraction, Sentry still located Punisher's randomly located escape van and took it apart. Punisher only escaped because he received an anonymous tip for an alternate escape route, where he promptly passed out and next thing he knew, he was receiving medical assistance from that benefactor.

And his "top notch" prep, for multiple scenarios at that, failed to anticipate Osborn's bodyguard would be the Sentry instead of some rando regular bodyguard paid by the government for the public rally event Punisher decided would be his best chance. My whole point being, that such was completely understandable in context.

[Aura Blaize]

Yeah, this scenario isn't just Punisher going after the Joker. It's the Joker doing his thing in Marvel New York, and even without the heavy hitters like the Avengers that'll still attract a ton of heroes.

Ghost Rider might be the worst of them for mr. J, but the list also includes Spider-man, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Moon Knight, and that's just off the top of my head. This isn't Gotham where it's just one dude and his associates hunting down criminals. There's a whole bunch of really compotent superheroes running around, and none of them will like the Joker very much.

Not to mention that Kingpin wouldn't care for him either.

True, but I think the point that some people have been making is that Joker isn't going to waltz into a new city and start making big moves. He's going to lay low and take in his surroundings. And chances are when he DOES make his move, it's going to be huge, simply because he'll discover that he will have a ton of pissed off super heroes/villains breathing down his neck.

[Hiromi]

Yeah lump me in to the Ghost Rider is Joker's biggest threat here, Joker's almost certainly immune to the Penance Stare in the same way Madcap was, but then that can be even worse since Ghostie can get creative

[Mider2009]

It's about the same level of PIS that leaves various super-geniuses unable to guess that tall, athletic, rich Bruce Wayne might be the Batman.

I mean...we can call it PIS if we wanna just call the whole comic PIS, the fact Batman’s not the only human in the JLA

[Mider2009]

Nik and Drunkard basically hit most of it already. There are a couple other things contributing here:

1) Joker is a consistently inconsistent character. In his own words, he changes personalities three times before lunch. His competency does have some highs and lows, but his concept actually accounts for this. Kind of like how fighting Sentry is a bad measuring stick for other characters because his powers tend to be whatever he thinks they are that day. Rumbles assumes both are having a "good day."

2) Straight up power creep. A lot of us still think of DC in terms of the Morrison era JLA post crisis period when we read the most comics. But the big names in DC have gotten powered up quite a bit in the last couple reboots. Superman went from a guy who could help shove around a celestial body on a good day to a guy who effortlessly benches the weight of the Earth. Orion went from a guy who gets knocked out by a continent sized creature to someone who tanks attacks that level the solar system around him. Hal Jordan is creating stars and casually devolving people. And Batman has drifted further and further towards the Iron Man concept with various power armors. And as one of the biggest names in DC, Joker is no exception. He's hanging with the big dogs a lot more consistently than he did in the early aughts.



Also, keep in mind that it isn't just that it takes Batman to find Joker and Frank is no Batman for finding people. It is that Batman often can't find Joker until he wants to be found.



If it makes you feel better, sure.

To be fair Punisher had Micro...and Frank’s not known as a tech computer guy

Lol...written badly? It’s a comic....

[Captain Morgan]

True, but I think the point that some people have been making is that Joker isn't going to waltz into a new city and start making big moves. He's going to lay low and take in his surroundings. And chances are when he DOES make his move, it's going to be huge, simply because he'll discover that he will have a ton of pissed off super heroes/villains breathing down his neck.

Yup. Dude is perfectly willing to play the long game to get a better punch line. See here where he takes down Lex Luthor and a sizable portion of the DC villain community.

https://images.app.goo.gl/cnyVYazTqm1hTEv77
https://images.app.goo.gl/K4ZmntNoXkYsUuV9A
https://images.app.goo.gl/JC62zAEnHpCcH8NP6

Yeah, he won't be well positioned to pull this level of stunt when he gets dropped in New York, sans his reputation and connections. But he doesn't need to play on that level to outfox the Punisher. As an example, he left Gotham he reinvented himself as a successful and globally respected masked detective and worked alongside Dick Grayson, until Dick finally caught on to the clues Joker intentionally gave him.

[Alan2099]

Yeah lump me in to the Ghost Rider is Joker's biggest threat here, Joker's almost certainly immune to the Penance Stare in the same way Madcap was, but then that can be even worse since Ghostie can get creative

Madcap wasn't immune at all. That was the whole point. Madcap couldn't feel anything at all, EXCEPT the stare, so he wanted more so he could feel something. (and it did mess him up bad, but still it was something.)

[Hiromi]

Madcap wasn't immune at all. That was the whole point. Madcap couldn't feel anything at all, EXCEPT the stare, so he wanted more so he could feel something. (and it did mess him up bad, but still it was something.)

that's what I meant, it's honestly still one of the only times I count legitimate where someone could handle it, given how dumb marvel writers have been about it since then

[Alan2099]

that's what I meant, it's honestly still one of the only times I count legitimate where someone could handle it, given how dumb marvel writers have been about it since then

I hate when a writer brings out that "oh, but this character likes the pain he inflicts on others, so he'll enjoy the stare," garbage. That is not how the Stare works.