Joker goes to New York

[Mider2009]

Right up until the point that he wound up dead...

Why would he wing up dead...he hasn’t in decades

[Mider2009]

What is Joker's goal here exactly? Because when Joker doesn't have Bruce to play with he does thigs like set nukes to blow up citites. If he's approaching this from a "do as much damage as possible to make a big splash" angle... Then yeah he gets stopped, but he's probably killed thousands of people first.

People forget that he's largely kept in line by his game with Batman. He's capable of inflicting horrible, horrible damage with prep. The fact that various people can beat him in a fist fight doesn't actually help them find him if he doesn't want to be found. Spider-Man, Dare Devil, Moon Knight, and Punsihsrr simply aren't better detectives than Bruce and Joker regulaly hides from Batman until he's .ready to be found.

Eventually, he'd attract enough heat to where SHIELD or Stark or whatever finds him, but those groups wouldn't start looking until he's actually established himself as a credible threat, at which point a lot of people have died.

To cause Chaos

[numberthirty]

Why would he wing up dead...he hasn’t in decades

In a particular DC Comics continuity where killing is incredibly rare.

If you have almost never had to go up against hardened killers?

Where is the argument for that you will fare decently once you have to?

Not that it is impossible, mind you. Just that nothing in the particular place that he is coming from points to that it is even likely that he would.

[Mider2009]

Pfft! Joker only survives in the Big Apple long enough for the Punisher to track him down and pump a dozen or so rounds in his pasty skull.

Didn’t Joker outsmart Deathstroke? I think he’s a bit tougher then punisher

[Guy1]

Also, aren't the rest of the Gotham Rogues hardened killers too?

[The MunchKING]

Also, aren't the rest of the Gotham Rogues hardened killers too?

When they can HIT anyone.

[Alan2099]

You know who Joker is going to hate in the Marvel Universe?

Deadpool.

He's funnier, crazier, more unpredictable, and no matter what Joker does to the guy he just won't stay dead.

[Guy1]

You know who Joker is going to hate in the Marvel Universe?

Deadpool.

He's funnier, crazier, more unpredictable, and no matter what Joker does to the guy he just won't stay dead.

Won't stay dead and he won't shut up. Oh yeah, Joker's gonna hate Wade.

[Captain Morgan]

Does naming them really change that they exist in a relatively "No Killing..." universe though?

It's about like your "Feats..." being that you are consistently the best hitter on the tee ball team.

How much do they actually mean if you take that kid, and drop him into little league?

New flash: people get killed in DC all the time. There are heroes that kill and there are villains who have tried to kill Joker. And hey, how many named villains that actually get used in others people's comics has Frank killed again? He kill Fisk, Osbourne, it anyone of actual note?

[Guy1]

When they can HIT anyone.

Now, now. They have a perfectly good track record against civilians and the GCPD.

And the heroes on occasion but they just get to bounce back.

[numberthirty]

New flash: people get killed in DC all the time. There are heroes that kill and there are villains who have tried to kill Joker. And hey, how many named villains that actually get used in others people's comics has Frank killed again? He kill Fisk, Osbourne, it anyone of actual note?

If the entire thing hinges on Frank alone?

That certainly a question worth going into.

Does in really seem like that is the case though?

[Captain Morgan]

There is a massive difference in resources in the two scenarios. Joker's normal resources aren't that great. It's like a normal Marvel NYC villain henchman lineup. There is no one in the lineup that any NYC hero is going to spend a minute worrying about. Spiderman would web up his entire henchman lineup in a minute. It's a normal prep fight for him before he faces the main villain. Joker's chemical knowledge/financial resources is the only thing of note. Joker mainly works alone and since Harley left him, Punchline is the only mook with some feats.

Now, in the other scenario, you gave Kingpin people like Bullseye/Thyroid Mary, that can easily beat up most of the Gotham City heroes/villains. Kingpin just has to plan, and strategize. That's in addition to money and his normal gang.

If the Joker gets found out by a hero/villain, his resources are cannon fodder and Joker has to deal with the hero one-on-one. If the Kingpin gets found out, the hero will be lucky to get to meet him. Most of them aren't getting past Bullseye and company. That's a much different level of resources.

Would you rather have better chemical factories or superior hired help (assuming that money is fairly equal)?




No one doubts that Joker gets the couple of moves on the board. He's way too experienced not to wait and plan it out properly (See Joker War). The issue is that the response from the NYC hero/villains should be much quicker and effective compared to Gotham City. If the Joker takes out Batman, Gotham City usually takes awhile to organize (Bad case of PIS - aka everything must go wrong until Batman recovers)). If the Joker takes out Spiderman, he still has Daredevil and other heroes to deal with.

If the entire thing hinges on Frank alone?

That certainly a question worth going into.

Does in really seem like that is the case though?

Oh hey moving goal posts time. So now you've gone from saying Foolkiller would kill Joker in 10 minutes flat to "well Punisher is going to have lots of people helping him." You realize if Peter Parker or whoever catches him, Frank doesn't get to kill him right? Which renders the whole lethal force argument moot.

That's why this is a bad argument. Plenty of people could kill him if they caught him, but if they catch him than he's caught anyway. It is the catching him that is the hard part, not the killing him.

[numberthirty]

Oh hey moving goal posts time. So now you've gone from saying Foolkiller would kill Joker in 10 minutes flat to "well Punisher is going to have lots of people helping him." You realize if Peter Parker or whoever catches him, Frank doesn't get to kill him right? Which renders the whole lethal force argument moot.

That's why this is a bad argument. Plenty of people could kill him if they caught him, but if they catch him than he's caught anyway. It is the catching him that is the hard part, not the killing him.

Negative.

It's actually more like "In an underworld full of the likes of Bullseye/Foolkiller/You Get It?

The Punisher is probably a secondary concern who would still pretty easily murder Joker.

[master of read]

if joker decided to get local goons, then frank could interrogate them to the info he needs. never said frank was a detective or anything of the sort. frank only needs to find out where joker is or could be and one shot. like i said, if he runs into frank or wade, he's eating a bullet.

another factor to point out: batman tends to work on his own when it comes to gotham, save for members of the bat family. he rarely calls for outside help. in marvel NYC, all the heroes are well connected with each other. if matt or peter have to deal with joker, they will call in some help.

[master of read]

Negative.

It's actually more like "In an underworld full of the likes of Bullseye/Foolkiller/You Get It?

The Punisher is probably a secondary concern who would still pretty easily murder Joker.

also, punisher is notorious for not working with the other heroes. hell, the other heroes don't like working with punisher either. so he would probably calling in some war buddies or other such people to deal with joker if it comes to it.