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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Is Birds of Prey seen as its own franchise or as part of the overall Batman franchise?
    They tried to break away from Gotham and do their own thing. I think it was under the writer that came after Gail but it didn't stick as they were back in Gotham during the Brightest Day event. Either way, they are still DC's longest running female led ongoing.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    Great thread. To me, the characters/concepts with the most potential are:

    Vixen: come on, she should be getting a HUGE push. Truth and Justice was a nice step in the right direction (format and new costume aside). So it would be really nice to see her getting an ongoing where they could explore her role as a major international hero. She even has spin-off potential with a Global Guardians book.

    Black Canary: they should stop treating her as just Green Arrow's girlfriend. She's the descendant of one of the first female heroes and she's one of the DCU's biggest bad-asses. She shouldn't be absorved by the GA or Batman franchises. Give her a solo to truly rebuild her character and make her a big player in other media as well.

    Naomi: she already started out as a fairly successful lead and now she's joining the JL. I may not always like Bendis' team books, but he created a new character with tons of potential AND a mythology to call her own.

    Stargirl: the show has proven she's a great lead character and she's now firmly established as the worthy successor of the Starman legacy and as the perfect POV to introduce the JSA to new readers. She absolutely should be one of the stars of a JS revival AND should get her own solo alongside it.

    Amethyst: her concept is perfect for the YA crowd. She has her own mythology, has a unique look and hook whitin the DCU and she doesn't depend on anyother character. It always baffles me how little DC seem to push her across different media.

    Zatanna: deserves to be at the center of the DC's mystic side. I love her as the leader of the JLDark, but DC need to stop making all her appearances revolve around Constantine (who really doesn't even fit a team book anyway). So make her the true central focus of her own team, give her a new ongoing that establishes her as the universe's go-to magic expert and make her movie happen.

    Katana: I've long thought she should become the leader of the Outsiders and the team should cut ties with Batman to truly be an independent organization.

    Birds of Prey: again, they need to divorce themselves from the Bat-family. It's ok to have members that have ties to Batman's world, but the team shouldn't be based in Gotham and their mission statement should be big enough to not be tied down to the Bat-franchise. To me they should be a team specialized in finding missing criminals across the DCU.

  3. #18

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    Katana has potential as well. She even got her own solo book during New 52.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I love Katana in Barr's original Batman & the Outsiders. The driven, passionate, tragic woman who became the emotional heart of the team. Turning her into another cold, sterile, assassin misses the point, imo.

  5. #20
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    Yeah, "franchise" is confusingly defined here. I don't know what it means in this context.

    Can someone do the Marvel comparison so I can get a grasp on what the original poster is talking about?

    List me the female-led Marvel franchises. Thanks!

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samm View Post
    I want to start off by saying that I fully acknowledge DC has a very strong roster of female characters, especially since they are the home of the most iconic one (Wonder Woman), but something I’ve noticed recently is that very few of them are the alpha or torch bearer of a franchise. Wonder Woman is basically the only one! Let’s take a look:

    The most successful females when it comes to leading a solo comic series, outside of Diana, are Catwoman, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Batgirl (both Barbara and Cassandra), and Power Girl. What do they all have in common? They’re all spin-offs of a far more popular male character and not the lead of their own franchise, merely supporting characters to a male led franchise. In other words, they wouldn’t exist without Batman and Superman and their stories depend on the world already established by Bruce and Clark. I wouldn’t consider any of these female characters their own franchise!

    Next we have the females who gained popularity on teams: Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Zatanna, Vixen, Jessica Cruz, Starfire and Raven. Shayera and Jessica are extremely popular but they aren’t the leads of their respective franchise as their male counterparts tend to take center stage (Hawkman, Hal Jordan, John Stewart). I guess a case can be made that Hawkgirl is a co-lead of the Hawk franchise, but even then the titles are named Hawkman not the Hawks. In recent times Black Canary has been turned into a supporting character of the Arrow franchise instead of her own franchises, likewise with Zatanna and her being paired off with the Hellblazer and JLD franchises respectively, rather than building up her own world. Vixen has tremendous amounts of potential but DC refuses to build her up as a strong franchise. Then you have the most popular Lady Titans, Starfire and Raven, both have strong mythos but suffer from the same treatment as the X-Women... fans are conditioned to see them as team characters strictly.

    Outside of Wonder Woman, the only other women who aren’t spin-offs/derivatives or who haven’t become supporting characters to a bigger franchise, to hold their own titles and lead their own franchise are Amethyst, Huntress, and Dove. None of them get very much attention sadly So my question is, how would you change this? Which female characters would you push and build up and how? My choices would be:

    Amethyst Gemworld is a strong concept that deserves development
    Black Orchid (Alba Garcia) with her connection to the Red, Green, and Rot plus Argus
    Zatanna Expand on Mystic University, she’s more than Constantine love interest
    Vixen Easy choice. Make her a princess of Zambesi and really expand on the Anazi mythology
    Huntress Her darker vigilante way of thinking would be a good series. Take on mob bosses and cartels, take her out of Gotham too
    It's just business plain and simple. I'm sure DC would love to have a lot of female titles, but unfortunately they don't sell well overall, despite exceptions.

    The only way to change this is to get more teenage girls reading comics (Which has been happening slowly)
    or get more male fans to read comics with a female lead. (I always have...but I seem to be in the minority)

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    Zatanna's had a solo series before, so DC was willing to try with her. I'm not sure how long her book lasted, but they can easily try with her again.
    I think with Zatanna it comes down to JLD selling pretty well, and Zatanna very likely not being big enough to have two books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    Black Canary: they should stop treating her as just Green Arrow's girlfriend. She's the descendant of one of the first female heroes and she's one of the DCU's biggest bad-asses. She shouldn't be absorved by the GA or Batman franchises. Give her a solo to truly rebuild her character and make her a big player in other media as well.
    Black Canary had 4 solos sofar (two with 4 issues, two with 12 issues), non where afaik ever as successfully as her team books.

    And when it comes two her an Green Arrow, I think that's probably the best Superhero Couple DC has.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nostalgia View Post
    The only way to change this is to get more teenage girls reading comics (Which has been happening slowly)
    or get more male fans to read comics with a female lead. (I always have...but I seem to be in the minority)
    Honestly I think quality is also a major Problem at the moment, I mostly follow the Batman related books and when I look at the runs we had for Batgirl, Catwoman, Batwoman and the Birds of Prey since the new 52 a lot of them where pretty weak (and some where absolutly terrible).

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Didn't Raven's OGN that came out in 2019 sell 50K on release? That is a huge number for an OGN. That is beating Batman GNs for that year. She should be mentioned more in the thread as she already has what the vast majority of the other characters mention don't haven. Which is consistent exposure in media.

  10. #25
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    At the moment Primer is actually doing very well on Amazon, and that's an OGN with a completely new character.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Didn't Raven's OGN that came out in 2019 sell 50K on release? That is a huge number for an OGN. That is beating Batman GNs for that year. She should be mentioned more in the thread as she already has what the vast majority of the other characters mention don't haven. Which is consistent exposure in media.
    Yeah Raven is a good pick, both her and Starfire are extremely popular and have enough mythology in their origin worth exploring! Plus they’re not derivative characters either!
    Done with DC. Can't handle the constant whiplash! Time to go on a hiatus!

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    It takes more then pushing a character to create a franchise. Franchise is as much about supporting characters and villains, as it is about the main characters. Most of the characters people are naming are team characters. I’ve noticed team characters tend to be created in a different way then solo characters.

    Team characters tend to be built in a way that makes them reliant on being on a team. They rarely have their own supporting cast, because team members usually perform the roles that a supporting cast would usually play. There “villains” are usually team villains and thus usually feel less personal to them in particular.

    Even their powers seem to be more team oriented. I’ve noticed that heroes on teams tend to be specialists power wise. This is a result of being designed from the beginning to be a part of a whole. Solo heroes on the other hand tend to have more generalist power sets. This isn’t universally true, but it does go to show why characters like the Xmen’s Cyclops or Cyborg tend to fizzle as solo acts.

    The only acception are Avengers/JLA style all star teams. Which are essentially a group of solo heroes teaming up. But even there, their is an obvious difference between how characters who are solo heroes like Superman are written, and how characters like Fire and Ice are written.

  13. #28
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Honestly I think quality is also a major Problem at the moment, I mostly follow the Batman related books and when I look at the runs we had for Batgirl, Catwoman, Batwoman and the Birds of Prey since the new 52 a lot of them where pretty weak (and some where absolutly terrible).
    Batgirl's Burnside run was pretty popular, as was Gotham Academy which was female led (even if that female lead was the least interesting female in the book - Maps was best).
    Gotham Academy should be a cartoon series...

  14. #29
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    I'll always take quality over quantity but dangit DC it shouldn't be hard to make a good ongoing Vixen comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by hairys View Post
    Yeah, "franchise" is confusingly defined here. I don't know what it means in this context.

    Can someone do the Marvel comparison so I can get a grasp on what the original poster is talking about?

    List me the female-led Marvel franchises. Thanks!
    Marvel Character who are in print right now?

    Captain Marvel

    Black Cat

    Silk (just came back last month actually)

    Spider-Woman

    Daredevil (Elektra is Daredevil atm)

    America Chavez (don't know if that's an ongoing)

    Scream (not an ongoing, so maybe it doesn't count, its a King in Black tie-in to clarify)
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 04-05-2021 at 08:10 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Batgirl's Burnside run was pretty popular,
    Wasn't really my cup of tea, and I think after Rebirth when they changed the creative team, it wasn't that popular anymore.

    And I don't deny there were some good runs, but most of them where pretty meh and some where really bad (like the New 52 Catwoman). But overall I think male lead Batbooks had on average the better writing.

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