DC’s Lack of Female Led Franchises!?

[Captain Nostalgia]

Honestly I think quality is also a major Problem at the moment, I mostly follow the Batman related books and when I look at the runs we had for Batgirl, Catwoman, Batwoman and the Birds of Prey since the new 52 a lot of them where pretty weak (and some where absolutly terrible).

Finding quality writers can be an issue to, but Zatanna's last series was amazingly written by Paul Dini and it only lasted 16 issues or so.

Female readership in comics has been dramatically growing over the decades since when I first started collecting, the problem is that the data doesn't specify what type of comics they are reading.....and I would gander that super hero comics is not their first choice.

So at the end of the day it's about business, if female lead comics sold more, than DC would publish more.

[CosmiComic]

Do the Brave and the Bold but with Wonder Woman teaming up with other ladies.

That's the idea!

Finding quality writers can be an issue to, but Zatanna's last series was amazingly written by Paul Dini and it only lasted 16 issues or so.

Female readership in comics has been dramatically growing over the decades since when I first started collecting, the problem is that the data doesn't specify what type of comics they are reading.....and I would gander that super hero comics is not their first choice.

So at the end of the day it's about business, if female lead comics sold more, than DC would publish more.

idk, subconscious bias can even affect the desire for profit

[Sutekh]

Do the Brave and the Bold but with Wonder Woman teaming up with other ladies.

That would be cool!

Or even a riff on Marvel's Heroes for Hire, with Oracle calling together random heroes on her list who happen to be in the area of a situation that needs heroes (and, what a shocker, they tend to be ladies?). Given how many series function just fine with various male heroes buddy-cop teaming up, one where some random ladies 'just happen' to be the heroes on-hand when a crisis breaks out shouldn't be any less 'convenient.'

[Will Evans]

I'd say Raven more than Starfire. Raven is a human, has magic, connected to a fairly big villain in Trigon, and can fit into a lot more traditionally popular stories. She can be a teen in a school setting like in her OGN, she can be used in the magic side of the DCU, and so on. I can envision her as her own franchise. It is a lot more relatable and can translate more easily into more mainstream stories. Starfire is an alien that lacks utility for solo stories and needs those other strong established characters to support her I think. So I don't think Starfire would really work as a solo hero in her own franchise that well. The whole young female super powered alien coming to Earth and having to adapt to life there is kind of done better by Supergirl too.

Both characters have had solo comics series

[Rac7d*]

Maybe DC shouldn't have given every other good villain to Batman

They developed and became good villains through time

[Badou]

Both characters have had solo comics series

I know. My point was that I think Raven has more potential as a consistent solo character than Starfire.

[mathew101281]

They developed and became good villains through time

Creators seem to be more willing to throw new villain ideas at Batman because he is DC’s biggest franchise. But the jokes on them because it’s almost impossible for new villains that aren’t connected to old villains to actually stick in the Bat mythos these days. You are almost better off coming up with villain for some of the lesser galleries (Aquaman or Wonderwoman for example). Honestly only 9 or so villains get any serious play in those overly large rogue’s galleries anyway.

[Vakanai]

I'd say Raven more than Starfire. Raven is a human, has magic, connected to a fairly big villain in Trigon, and can fit into a lot more traditionally popular stories. She can be a teen in a school setting like in her OGN, she can be used in the magic side of the DCU, and so on. I can envision her as her own franchise. It is a lot more relatable and can translate more easily into more mainstream stories. Starfire is an alien that lacks utility for solo stories and needs those other strong established characters to support her I think. So I don't think Starfire would really work as a solo hero in her own franchise that well. The whole young female super powered alien coming to Earth and having to adapt to life there is kind of done better by Supergirl too.

Maybe if we're talking strictly about a traditional ongoing comic series set on earth, but I bet an origin story YA OGN set entirely on her home planet that slowly sets up her own beloved sister as an enemy would strike a lot of chords with people. Don't dismiss Starfire entirely, done right she can at least front some great OGNs and other titles for young girls (and boys).


Also is the magic angle really that huge a plus?

[CosmiComic]

They developed and became good villains through time

i know, but that's because they received more attention than other villains

[Vakanai]

i know, but that's because they received more attention than other villains

So writers need to give other villains more attention when they write for other heroes.
I think every DC writer should just look up the rogues gallery for whatever hero they're writing, and just challenge themselves to come up with 2 story pitches for every b and c rank villain. They might actually stumble onto something.

[Badou]

Maybe if we're talking strictly about a traditional ongoing comic series set on earth, but I bet an origin story YA OGN set entirely on her home planet that slowly sets up her own beloved sister as an enemy would strike a lot of chords with people. Don't dismiss Starfire entirely, done right she can at least front some great OGNs and other titles for young girls (and boys).


Also is the magic angle really that huge a plus?

When you look at the vast majority of comics, OGNs, manga, and young adult novels they are all about humans or people that look human. You don't really see a big market for non-human looking alien lead series. Probably why DC always tries to make Starfire look more human to make her have more of a universal appeal, or why basically every GL title is about another Earth Lantern. Then on top of that space settings aren't as prevalent as Earth settings. It's a harder sell. Then I don't think people are that interested in Tamaran or Blackfire all that much on their own and you'd have to quickly start pulling from other alien races readers are familiar with. Basically overall I don't think Starfire has as much utility as a Raven who checks a lot more boxes to support a independent franchise. I mean of course a new Starfire OGN or something could do very well, since she is part of a popular media franchise, but I think she relies more on the Titans and her romance with Robin, who is one of DC's biggest characters which helps elevates her a lot, to succeed.

And I think magic is a big deal as it tends to be a good gateway into fiction. I mean a series about teen girl named Raven who learns that she is the daughter of this evil demon and possesses magic powers and then has to learn to control them is a solid foundation to build a media franchise on top of. Then you can scale the magic for bigger stories or grittier street-level stories, and even use familiar folklore or mythologies to expand the world of magic. With a Starfire you are kind of locked into a sci fi setting in space.

[Vakanai]

When you look at the vast majority of comics, OGNs, manga, and young adult novels they are all about humans or people that look human. You don't really see a big market for non-human looking alien lead series. Probably why DC always tries to make Starfire look more human to make her have more of a universal appeal, or why basically every GL title is about another Earth Lantern. Then on top of that space settings aren't as prevalent as Earth settings. It's a harder sell. Then I don't think people are that interested in Tamaran or Blackfire all that much on their own and you'd have to quickly start pulling from other alien races readers are familiar with. Basically overall I don't think Starfire has as much utility as a Raven who checks a lot more boxes to support a independent franchise. I mean of course a new Starfire OGN or something could do very well, since she is part of a popular media franchise, but I think she relies more on the Titans and her romance with Robin, who is one of DC's biggest characters which helps elevates her a lot, to succeed.

And I think magic is a big deal as it tends to be a good gateway into fiction. I mean a series about teen girl named Raven who learns that she is the daughter of this evil demon and possesses magic powers and then has to learn to control them is a solid foundation to build a media franchise on top of. Then you can scale the magic for bigger stories or grittier street-level stories, and even use familiar folklore or mythologies to expand the world of magic. With a Starfire you are kind of locked into a sci fi setting in space.

On the first point - well of course human looking humans is the vast majority of main characters in books and fiction, we are human. That doesn't mean there's some mark against orange skinned Starfire - people love Groot and Rocket and Drax and Gamora and Yoda. I'd try the book before saying it can't sell among YA. Also, Star Trek, Star Wars, and others say space settings can work often enough.

I don't know, mostly when I think YA magic titles I just think Harry Potter. And Percy Jackson if more demigod Greek myths stuff counts as magic.

[Sutekh]

So writers need to give other villains more attention when they write for other heroes.

True. Various villains seem to have transcended their first 'hero,' such as Deathstroke or Killer Frost or Black Adam, and I wouldn't be surprised if folks like Captain Cold or Giganta or Black Manta could also break out and become more widely-used than 'so and so's nemesis.'

[CosmiComic]

So writers need to give other villains more attention when they write for other heroes.
I think every DC writer should just look up the rogues gallery for whatever hero they're writing, and just challenge themselves to come up with 2 story pitches for every b and c rank villain. They might actually stumble onto something.

I think that could work.

[OopsIdiditagain]

On the first point - well of course human looking humans is the vast majority of main characters in books and fiction, we are human. That doesn't mean there's some mark against orange skinned Starfire - people love Groot and Rocket and Drax and Gamora and Yoda. I'd try the book before saying it can't sell among YA. Also, Star Trek, Star Wars, and others say space settings can work often enough.

I don't know, mostly when I think YA magic titles I just think Harry Potter. And Percy Jackson if more demigod Greek myths stuff counts as magic.

YA makes me think of the vampires and werewolves craze. There's an entire manga category centered around Monster Girls. Might as well be a genre like magical girls or mechas.