Loki

[Cyke]

Tony and Bruce were always latecomers when it comes to time travel in the Marvel universe, unless you are talking about the MCU. That still annoys me. I can come up with numerous times in the comics when people "borrowed" Doom's time platform.

No, I'm talking strictly MCU here. Tony and Bruce are geniuses when it comes to temporal mechanics -- relative to Earth science -- but they're still latecomers all the same since they solved it so recently, compared to Ancient One who was dropping knowledge and clarity on one of those geniuses later in the movie, and the TVA's TemPads that make the Avengers' time machine look like a space hopper.

Speaking of space hoppers, I'm reminded that Doctor Who seems to change the nature of space and time and the flow of history and how branches and alternates work, seemingly every season. And that's *the* time travel show. If Doctor Who can do it and continue on for almost 60 years and counting, so too can any franchise that's fledgling in comparison. Star Trek also seems to have different methods branching timelines concurrently -- the Abramsverse is nothing new compared to TOS and TNG in that regard.

[Iron Maiden]

No, I'm talking strictly MCU here. Tony and Bruce are geniuses when it comes to temporal mechanics -- relative to Earth science -- but they're still latecomers all the same since they solved it so recently, compared to Ancient One who was dropping knowledge and clarity on one of those geniuses later in the movie, and the TVA's TemPads that make the Avengers' time machine look like a space hopper.

Yes, that's the part that always pisses me off because Doom was terribly mishandled by Fox so we won't get the true impact Doom had on things like time travel in the MCU. One way they could do it is if Doom and the FF return from a previous time traveling incident that occurs in the past. The others maybe considered them dead or missing.

In the comics Tony couldn't compete with Doom on temporal mechanics. They used his Time Platform a couple of times, like when they went to Camelot and then to the future in the second adventure (249-250) Even the TVA never caught up to Doom.

Speaking of space hoppers, I'm reminded that Doctor Who seems to change the nature of space and time and the flow of history and how branches and alternates work, seemingly every season. And that's *the* time travel show. If Doctor Who can do it and continue on for almost 60 years and counting, so too can any franchise that's fledgling in comparison. Star Trek also seems to have different methods branching timelines concurrently -- the Abramsverse is nothing new compared to TOS and TNG in that regard.

At least you can say TOS did alternate universes long before other sci fi shows, probably inspired a bit by Dr. Who. There was the one in season 2 where Spock had the beard and advancements in rank were done by assassination.

[Scott Taylor]

Tony and Bruce were always latecomers when it comes to time travel in the Marvel universe, unless you are talking about the MCU. That still annoys me. I can come up with numerous times in the comics when people "borrowed" Doom's time platform.

Haha, so true. Doom apparently had time machines just lying around in different locations. My favorite was when Cotton Mather used it to kidnap Scarlet Witch from one of Doom's extra castles in New York. And the machine is just left on, like an oven or something, so later on both Spider-Man and Vision use it to go rescue Wanda. Pretty soon Doom shows up just to check on things and help them sort stuff out, then he leaves, telling them to just turn the machine off when they are done with it, basically.

Time travel is just not a big deal in comics. Its cute how the MCU treats it like its just such an amazing occurrence and how Stark is such a smart guy. Banner is smarter than Stark, for one thing. But neither of them match up to Doom. The only one to come close is Reed.

[DrNewGod]

Have there been that many other shows that have been incorporated with movie franchises, much less streaming ones? I mean, you have stuff like Star Trek that had both movie and TV iterations, but the movies were normally done either in their own timeline or using a cast after their show mostly ended. I can't think of that many franchises that connected TV and movie like the MCU has done.

As far as I know, no. This has never been done before, and I'm astonished that it has worked as well as it has. Particularly since it began when Marvel was still an independent entity; it's barely short of a miracle that the influence of new ownership didn't wreck the ship.

[j9ac9k]

Now that we're done with this season, I have one big question about the premise of the variant Lokis: Shouldn't all the variants who weren't Hiddleston's Loki been pruned the second they were born?(assuming they were born that way and nobody has said they were Loki changing his form) Sylie Loki, alligator Loki, and Boastful Loki in particular clearly aren't Hiddleston's Loki on a divergent timestream the way tv Loki is movie Loki whose paths diverged in Endgame. Classic Loki seems to have lived through all the MCU events and just lived past Infinity War. Kid Loki diverged when he killed Thor, but all the others were clearly an alternate universe version and never part of the one "Sacred Timeline" so how were any of them allowed to continue beyond infancy?

[josai21]

Now that we're done with this season, I have one big question about the premise of the variant Lokis: Shouldn't all the variants who weren't Hiddleston's Loki been pruned the second they were born?(assuming they were born that way and nobody has said they were Loki changing his form) Sylie Loki, alligator Loki, and Boastful Loki in particular clearly aren't Hiddleston's Loki on a divergent timestream the way tv Loki is movie Loki whose paths diverged in Endgame. Classic Loki seems to have lived through all the MCU events and just lived past Infinity War. Kid Loki diverged when he killed Thor, but all the others were clearly an alternate universe version and never part of the one "Sacred Timeline" so how were any of them allowed to continue beyond infancy?

I think the answer is person matters much less than action. So for example you could take Tom Holland Spiderman and put him in Loki's position and as long as he acted exactly as Loki was supposed to...he would not be pruned. So in case of gator loki, lets imagine a verse exists where everyone is some sort of animal but everything happens exactly as they should....until a certain point.

because the TVA is now about preserving a timeline as much as it is preventing a different Kaang.

[Iron Maiden]

Haha, so true. Doom apparently had time machines just lying around in different locations. My favorite was when Cotton Mather used it to kidnap Scarlet Witch from one of Doom's extra castles in New York. And the machine is just left on, like an oven or something, so later on both Spider-Man and Vision use it to go rescue Wanda. Pretty soon Doom shows up just to check on things and help them sort stuff out, then he leaves, telling them to just turn the machine off when they are done with it, basically.

Time travel is just not a big deal in comics. Its cute how the MCU treats it like its just such an amazing occurrence and how Stark is such a smart guy. Banner is smarter than Stark, for one thing. But neither of them match up to Doom. The only one to come close is Reed.

Amen. That's what irks me about the MCU. Now Tony is credited creating a method for time travel since the FF had yet to be acquired by Disney/Marvel at that time.

Doom once even weaponized the time platform in Doom 2099. He killed one if his enemies, a cyborg named Tiger Wylde by shutting down the time platform while Tiger Wylde was still in transit, cutting him in half.

And the TVA never has caught up to Doom. IIRC his time platform does not create variant timelines.

[Frontier]

Now that we're done with this season, I have one big question about the premise of the variant Lokis: Shouldn't all the variants who weren't Hiddleston's Loki been pruned the second they were born?(assuming they were born that way and nobody has said they were Loki changing his form) Sylie Loki, alligator Loki, and Boastful Loki in particular clearly aren't Hiddleston's Loki on a divergent timestream the way tv Loki is movie Loki whose paths diverged in Endgame. Classic Loki seems to have lived through all the MCU events and just lived past Infinity War. Kid Loki diverged when he killed Thor, but all the others were clearly an alternate universe version and never part of the one "Sacred Timeline" so how were any of them allowed to continue beyond infancy?

I guess it depends on where their actions interfere with the Sacred Timeline.

In the case of Classic Loki, the TVA only grabbed him when he wanted to see Thor again, revealing he was alive, implying Thor is supposed to believe Loki is dead for the rest of his life.

[CosmiComic]

Amen. That's what irks me about the MCU. Now Tony is credited creating a method for time travel since the FF had yet to be acquired by Disney/Marvel at that time.

Doom once even weaponized the time platform in Doom 2099. He killed one if his enemies, a cyborg named Tiger Wylde by shutting down the time platform while Tiger Wylde was still in transit, cutting him in half.

And the TVA never has caught up to Doom. IIRC his time platform does not create variant timelines.

Is that really that much of a problem?

[Iron Maiden]

Is that really that much of a problem?

It is because to me because I grew up with the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby Marvel. I think now that Disney Marvel owns the Fantastic Four characters they can start giving them the respect and attention they deserve for being the comic that launched the Silver Age and gave us the beginnings of the Marvel Universe. Sub-Mariner too.

At least with Captain America that IP was launched successfully since one of Marvel's executives, David Maisel convinced Ike Perlmutter to stop selling things off to other companies and to start Marvel's own production company. Otherwise Captain America was going to be sold off to Warner Brothers (who only seems to do Batman movies well) and Thor was going to go Sony.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Loki has the best writing in the MCU.

[Iron Maiden]

Loki has the best writing in the MCU.

I'd say the Captain America character got the best script treatment throughout the first launch.

[Frontier]

I liked the show but I did feel like they really underpowered Loki for this series.

[CosmiComic]

It is because to me because I grew up with the Stan Lee/Jack Kirby Marvel. I think now that Disney Marvel owns the Fantastic Four characters they can start giving them the respect and attention they deserve for being the comic that launched the Silver Age and gave us the beginnings of the Marvel Universe. Sub-Mariner too.

At least with Captain America that IP was launched successfully since one of Marvel's executives, David Maisel convinced Ike Perlmutter to stop selling things off to other companies and to start Marvel's own production company. Otherwise Captain America was going to be sold off to Warner Brothers (who only seems to do Batman movies well) and Thor was going to go Sony.

I guess I don't really feel as bothered because I don't really like F4 and I find the whole "I can invent everything" business a bit over the top. So Tony designing the time travel is ok with me

[Donald]

It makes no sense.

Why did killing HWR instantly start the timeline going whackado? His castle was a the end of time, he said he's seen it all, so it all must have happened. He already pruned any version of himself that would have been evil and had essentially "won".