Loki

[Mutant 77]

I've finally watched the final episode.

So basically:

1- Kang "cut" the Sacred Timeline (the MCU) out of the Multiverse (how? Seems impossible), so that other universes could not invade the MCU. Okay. Interdimensional travel to the MCU is not possible, so interdimensional counterparts cannot jump into the MCU. That's right.

2- Time Branches (see ENDGAME) and Alternate Universes are two different concepts. Totally.

STILL, why did Kang steal people from Multiverse in order to create the TVA??? Couldn't he use normal humans from the MCU? That would be much more easy.


ALSO:

Those alternate universes still exist.
All of them.
The Sylvie Universe, the Alligator Loki Universe, the Classic Comic Book Loki Universe and so on and on...............
TVA is supposed to just get rid of potential time branches. But what branches??????????????????????? They were travelling to other universes. Always.
Why the TVA doesn't know or realize or discover that they are stealing people from other universes, not "time branches"?

The Time Variance Authority (TVA) is a bureaucratic organization created by He Who Remains that is tasked with preserving the "Sacred Timeline" and preventing the creation of branching timelines.
According to TVA propaganda, countless timelines battled one another for dominance across the Multiverse in a cataclysmic war that lasted for eons and nearly resulted in the absolute destruction of existence. To prevent this, the Time-Keepers brought peace and order to the Multiverse by arranging the timelines into a single "Sacred Timeline". In order to preserve the timeline's proper flow, the Time-Keepers then created the Time Variance Authority to police the Multiverse from Variants who create nexus events by stepping off of the path that the Time-Keepers created. If nexus events are left unchecked, the timeline could branch off and lead to another multiversal war.

Great premise, but that's not what is shown on-screen. TVA agents constantly steal people from other universes, NOT "time branches". The agents call them "Time Variants", all of them, but they are not "Time Variants", they are "Interdimensional Counterparts".
(EXCEPT 2012 LOKI, of course)
And the TVA agents do NOT know that. How can you perform a task and not realize what you're doing? That's impossible.

TVA agents believe that alternate universes do NOT exist anymore, but they steal people from other universes, not time branches.
They just know that there's a single timeline guarded by the Time-Keepers, but they steal people from other universes... without knowing it???!!!!!????

Massive plotholes. Bad writing.

[CosmiComic]

I'm honestly hoping they ignore the Reed-Kang connection. I never understood why it was necessary and Kang is closer to the Avengers anyway. Same with Kang & Doom

[thwhtGuardian]

I'm honestly hoping they ignore the Reed-Kang connection. I never understood why it was necessary and Kang is closer to the Avengers anyway. Same with Kang & Doom

Yeah, it always made the world feel too small and coincidental to me. I'd rather no connections, just let him be a dude from the future.

[useridgoeshere]

Yah I agree, for a new villain his introduction was in a lackluster, pretty non-threatening way. The flippant, tired-of-life guy was a bit like the Thanos that Thor beheaded. Can you imagine if Thanos had been introduced as that guy rather than the guy behind a full-scale invasion of New York?

Expect a full, actual introduction of the real Kang in Spider-Man

But he's not the new Thanos. We're never going to see him again. He basically sets himself up as a villain for a good reason, to keep worse stuff out. Now, we know that the next time we see a guy who looks like him, he could be one of the really bad ones. I don't think he'll act the same way and we know that he's a multiversal threat, which Thanos never was.

[Frontier]

Ok that would be one crazy way to introduce Dr. Doom - as one of many Kang variants. I like it, though, there might actually be a chance of me liking Kang if that were the case. Plus it would immediately make Doom into who he ought to be - a genuine multiversal threat.

Eh...I think that would take too much away from Doom's background, which is an important part of the character.

But he's not the new Thanos. We're never going to see him again. He basically sets himself up as a villain for a good reason, to keep worse stuff out. Now, we know that the next time we see a guy who looks like him, he could be one of the really bad ones. I don't think he'll act the same way and we know that he's a multiversal threat, which Thanos never was.

He's not the next MCU Big Bad. Kang is. We just haven't seen him yet.

[Tofali]

Kang is going to be in Quantumania for crying out loud, what is "the next big bad" about that?

[Adam Allen]

I didn't see anything lackluster in the conclusion here, as played he was really compelling and made what otherwise would have been a dull infodump into something worth listening to.

He did well with the role, unfortunately I don't think a huge infodump was the best way to go, for a season finale. Have to agree with MindofShadow's assessment, that it basically made the episode, and unfortunately with it the whole season, feel more like a setup for future projects, than a story that stands on its own.

They laid the groundwork for multiversal shenanigans well enough ... but you know, for that matter, you already had time travel from Infinity War/Endgame, and the quantum universe from Ant Man ... plus, whatever magical dimensions went on with Dr. Strange and WandaVision ... so, while this added a more solid footing for whatever comes next, I would not have spent a whole show on it. If anything, I guess what this season accomplished most was to give a backstory for a heroic Loki in the MCU after this, where our "original" Loki was killed off, at the start of Infinity War. Good on them for that I guess, but yeah, still feels like it was more laying groundwork for future projects, more than its own story.

[Cyke]

I can't comment to everything, but I got shades of Hickman's Time Runs Out from the final episode. It didn't make much sense either, but dang, it was one of the best rides of the Marvel universe ever.

A few things to note:

1. The TVA agents are just as much victims of Kang's manipulations as anyone else -- hell, they were outright lied to about the fundamental mission of the TVA itself. That's the biggest cover-up that shades all the other cover-ups. They didn't even know pruning led to the end of time; they thought it really was wiping someone out of existence wholesale. So if they don't know those basic concepts, something else (likely Kang) is kidnapping variants to turn into TVA personnel, not the TVA themselves.

2. The rhyme and reason behind Kang kidnapping variants and operating the way he does, for good or for ill, is likely going to be expanded upon elsewhere. Not ideal, no, but the MCU is far past self-contained storytelling with the movies and current shows.

3. This part:

And the TVA agents do NOT know that. How can you perform a task and not realize what you're doing? That's impossible.

Actually IRL there's toxoplasma gondii, cordyceps, and countless other parasites that can make the host perform a task without their realizing it, though I doubt that's what's happening here. However, there's likewise other ways to do that just in the regular MCU -- the Mind Stone, telepathy, even Loki's own scheming (no mind control, just good scheming), and that's *without* the technology or the wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey resources that Kang has access to.

Simply put, of all the things to have a problem with in this episode, the agents acting in ignorance is perhaps the most believable and legitimate of them all.

[Cyke]

I always liked that Kang had a link to Apocalypse through his Rama-Tut incarnation, first explained in Apocalypse's origins in the 90s and then further developed by Remender. Logically that would also be a way to bring in the X-Men. But that's also so tangential and seems so shoehorned in the big picture that I doubt it'll be utilized or touched upon in the future MCU. Still, it kinda makes sense since Apocalypse is Egyptian (Arrakii/whatever) and immortal, so Rama-Tut had to be in his home town at some point.

I do recall the obviously non-canon TNG/X-Men crossover, where they faced Kang and the book lampshaded that he wasn't an X-Villain. "You know him?" "By reputation, mostly."

[GSman]

Kang is going to be in Quantumania for crying out loud, what is "the next big bad" about that?

Yeah, I have been curious about that. If Kang is the supposed big bad of the MCU, why is he going to be the next villain of an Ant Man and Wasp film? If they are committed to having him be big bad, I guess the Kang in that film will be one of the many supposed variants and not the "main" version who'll be the all encompassing villain. Which likely means this Kang stuff will extend past this phase since we don't have an Avengers team up movie announced yet, unless it all comes to a head in the FF movie, which I don't think they'll sabatoge their origin movie just to throw them into a huge team up.

[Frontier]

Yeah, I have been curious about that. If Kang is the supposed big bad of the MCU, why is he going to be the next villain of an Ant Man and Wasp film? If they are committed to having him be big bad, I guess the Kang in that film will be one of the many supposed variants and not the "main" version who'll be the all encompassing villain. Which likely means this Kang stuff will extend past this phase since we don't have an Avengers team up movie announced yet, unless it all comes to a head in the FF movie, which I don't think they'll sabatoge their origin movie just to throw them into a huge team up.

That's the thing that He Who Remains was so worried about. Even if you stop one Kang Variant, there will probably be another one that's just as bad, if not worse, probably waiting in the wings to take over and continue conquering.

And it's one way to have Ant-Man and family win in their movie without necessarily downgrading Kang's threat level.

[Immortal Weapon]

Kang is going to be in Quantumania for crying out loud, what is "the next big bad" about that?

Kang obviously will be making multiple appearances. I don't think he will be big bad level but maybe Loki level.

[Frontier]

Kang obviously will be making multiple appearances. I don't think he will be big bad level but maybe Loki level.

I could definitely see him as a threat big enough to eventually warrant the Avengers re-forming. I mean, he is an Avengers villain.

[DrNewGod]

Loved it. After my brain quit hurting, I had two questions:

• What's Ravonna up to?
• Is she this season's Big Bad's agent or that of the incarnation to come?
• Oh, yeah, ETA: How does Loki get back to When/Where he left Stark Tower to play out his destiny?
• Also ETA: If Loki has entered a different timeline, is all the MCU going forward a different reality?

[Frontier]

Loved it. After my brain quit hurting, I had two questions:

• What's Ravonna up to?
• Is she this season's Big Bad's agent or that of the incarnation to come?

He Who Remains gave her some kind of message, and it's probably Kang related, but I'm not sure exactly what it entails.