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Thread: Loki

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea he also seemed to be genuinely trying to help Loki. Now that could be for selfish reasons in an attempt to make Loki trust and cooperate with him. But iono seemed like Mobius genuinely liked him. He's also one hell of a therapist lol.
    OR he's another version of Loki trying to make regular Loki do something/not do something to cause/prevent a future event.
    Sounds perfect.

  2. #122
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    Those TVA thugs give off strong Nazi vibes. I don’t think that is a coincidence.

  3. #123
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    - In terms of what Marvel is setting up, starting since Endgame is laying the groundwork for the Multiverse. That's what everyone pretty much assumes is going to happen, yes? It's fun and lets Marvel use all sort of actors and it releases them from a tight continuity, etc. But thematically, what's the point? I think what we see with the TVA is an indication and it folds back to F&WS. I think Marvel will present the case that the Multiverse should happen.

    The universe started out as a multiverse, but war and supposedly the Time Keepers crafted it into one "Sacred Timeline." But is it a good thing? Miss Minutes would have us think so - that it would lead to "madness" but what does that even mean? They're not saying all timelines would merge and people from different alternate realities would spill into each other creating chaos, just that there'd be a ton of timelines, but should we assume a multiverse is bad because the TVA says so? In terms of the show's design, there's a reason their tech looks old-fashioned rather than futuristic, they're presented as a Kafkaesque bureaucracy with little empathy, even the term "Sacred" timeline implies that while held dear to those who believe it, it's not the "Keystone" timeline or the "Load Bearing Wall" timeline. Also, all of their sign are in english ... and only english. That TVA guy reminded Mobius he speaks all the languages, but it clearly wasn't assumed or else he wouldn't have pointed it out. It also shows they're not equipped with some translation tech that we all accept exists in other movies because nothing would ever get done otherwise.

    Going back to F&WS, I think this is ultimately Marvel's thematic imperative for the whole line, with Sam as the "First Avenger" of this new phase. (it was supposed to come out before "WandaVision") I'm loathe to boil it down so simplistically, (which is why I wrote that second paragraph) but I think we'll see that Multiverse = diversity. Not a huge leap considering how they've been handling their comics line, but Feige knows to not ham-fist it up. We know it's part of the public agenda, but perhaps it's the whole theme for the next phase of stories, not just in casting choices, and not just shoved in to "pander to the left." Maybe this is super obvious, but I would say it's being done well this time, which is really important.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 06-10-2021 at 07:11 PM.

  4. #124
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    I'm pretty sure pandering to the left isn't something to be worried about, despite the internet insisting otherwise

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    OR he's another version of Loki trying to make regular Loki do something/not do something to cause/prevent a future event.
    Or he's Mephisto.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I'm pretty sure pandering to the left isn't something to be worried about, despite the internet insisting otherwise
    I don’t see how a powerful unaccountable bureaucracy being the apparent villains is pandering to the left. AAMOF I am certain the right complains about that more than the left.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnak View Post
    I don’t see how a powerful unaccountable bureaucracy being the apparent villains is pandering to the left. AAMOF I am certain the right complains about that more than the left.
    I was responding to the previous comment. Although I don't think fascism is pandering to leftists either. Anyway, back to topic

  8. #128
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnak View Post
    I don’t see how a powerful unaccountable bureaucracy being the apparent villains is pandering to the left. AAMOF I am certain the right complains about that more than the left.
    I was speaking more about how some people have reacted to Marvel's push for diversity as "pandering". And while nobody likes bureaucracy, each side impresses their own prejudices onto why they don't like it.(and usually finds the other side is to blame. Just like nobody likes the government wasting money, but some blame it on the military industrial complex, others blame welfare) The TVA represents and enforces a singular vision of how things should be. It's a narrow view ... fascistic, one might say. (the fact that the TVA was created as a riff on Judge Dredd who was himself an Americanized fascistic thug used to represent Britain's iron-fisted rule (from my understanding) is no coincidence......) The Miss Minutes movie, which explains the perils of the Multiverse like an old "Duck and Cover" film, hints to me that maybe the TVA is full of crap and that this whole thing is about breaking people out of their self-important, comfortable notions of "how things should be" to embrace a little diver--multiversity. But yeah, I could be reading into it.... it wouldn't be a Disney/Marvel joint if people didn't go off on tangents, theorize and pontificate.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    The universe started out as a multiverse, but war and supposedly the Time Keepers crafted it into one "Sacred Timeline." But is it a good thing? Miss Minutes would have us think so - that it would lead to "madness" but what does that even mean? They're not saying all timelines would merge and people from different alternate realities would spill into each other creating chaos, just that there'd be a ton of timelines, but should we assume a multiverse is bad because the TVA says so? In terms of the show's design, there's a reason their tech looks old-fashioned rather than futuristic, they're presented as a Kafkaesque bureaucracy with little empathy, even the term "Sacred" timeline implies that while held dear to those who believe it, it's not the "Keystone" timeline or the "Load Bearing Wall" timeline. Also, all of their sign are in english ... and only english. That TVA guy reminded Mobius he speaks all the languages, but it clearly wasn't assumed or else he wouldn't have pointed it out. It also shows they're not equipped with some translation tech that we all accept exists in other movies because nothing would ever get done otherwise.
    While their tech is phenomenal, the aesthetic of it is deliberately designed to harken to the 1950s Man In The Grey Flannel Suit era of American conformity. I don't read a lot more into the language signs than that. I agree with you on the Miss Minutes presentation, it's too much like the sugar coated version of Manifest Destiny that was in every school book of the 1930s-1980s.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    ... The Time Keepers lied. There is still a multiverse, but they did something to hide those universes, they chose one timeline to call the 'Sacred Timeline', and the TVA exists to make sure those other timelines don't get more powerful then the Time Keeper's chosen timeline.
    Or it's less about power than it is about isolationism. The other Time Lines are out there, but the Time Keepers don't want intrusions on their timeline. Which would kind of be a riff on powerful interests wanting diverse voices silenced or at least isolated. It could be one of the reasons they're so hard on variants; they don't want anyone running around who's off-message.

  10. #130
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regnak View Post
    Those TVA thugs give off strong Nazi vibes. I don’t think that is a coincidence.
    I didn't get Nazi vibes from them. The majority of the people who work at TVA are no nonsense and overly serious. Typical of people who have sticks up their asses.

  11. #131
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I didn't get Nazi vibes from them. The majority of the people who work at TVA are no nonsense and overly serious. Typical of people who have sticks up their asses.
    So Nazis didn't have sticks up their asses? They weren't exactly laid back...

  12. #132
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    Loved the first episode. And waiting for the next one gives enough time to speculate about what is happening^^

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I was speaking more about how some people have reacted to Marvel's push for diversity as "pandering". And while nobody likes bureaucracy, each side impresses their own prejudices onto why they don't like it.(and usually finds the other side is to blame. Just like nobody likes the government wasting money, but some blame it on the military industrial complex, others blame welfare) The TVA represents and enforces a singular vision of how things should be. It's a narrow view ... fascistic, one might say. (the fact that the TVA was created as a riff on Judge Dredd who was himself an Americanized fascistic thug used to represent Britain's iron-fisted rule (from my understanding)
    That's... a pretty weird take on Dredd. The Judge Dredd strip was originally created as a violent satire of America as viewed through the lens of American movies, most predominantly Dirty Harry, though the Judges' unbending authoritarian attitude was based on writer Pat Mills' teachers at school, who belonged to a strict Catholic brotherhood of monks; as the strip progressed it was influenced by views on Margaret Thatcher's time as Prime Minister, basic American and British culture, and the obvious flaws of a police state.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I didn't get Nazi vibes from them. The majority of the people who work at TVA are no nonsense and overly serious. Typical of people who have sticks up their asses.
    The shape of the helmets and the color scheme would not have been out of place in Nazi Germany.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Endgame's time heist. Might that have been TVA patch-plumbing after Thanos dinked with time to recover the Mind Stone? Could be their fixes are a bit messier than they let on.
    Or they don't fix anything and the whole notion of a Sacred Timeline is bunk. I mean, we don't even know if those really were infinity stones or if that really was the Tesseract sitting in that guy's drawer. For all we know, everything they have said about themselves has been a big lie to manipulate Loki.
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